"Leveling" a warhorse.

[brehobit]

The heavy horse suffers from the -5 attack penalty a nonpredator is assigned, as per the MM appendix on animals. Train it for combat and the penalty disappears.

Good point. So we get:
A heavy horse (trained for battle) has 3 HD, 19 hit points, and 2 attacks at +4 for d6+3 damage

A heavy warhorse has 4HD, 30 hit points, 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2).

Plus the warhorse has a +1 AC (due to dex).

So the difference isn't as large, but it is certainly large. (+2 attack, +1 damage and one extra attack, 11 extra hit points and 1 AC) The 3rd-5th level druid's horse against a normal warhorse would probably be a fair fight.

In anycase, the wild cohort feat wouldn't be better than a pure warhorse until level 6. At level 8 you'd have a 6HD beast with 39hps, only 9 better than the standard warhorse. At level 9 it gets a lot better....

 

[brehobit]

Core rules

Awaken the warhorse and convince it to remain a beast of burden. Hopefully you didn't "use mount as cover" too often.

Train dire animals as combat mounts. The Handle animal DCs are not that bad. It takes more time than it does effort for any character trained in the skill at the levels when you need the stronger mount.

Yeah,
the Five Nations book has rules for magebred brown bear mounts. Those are gross. And, in Eberron, legal as druid animal companions.

Mark

 

[Klaus]

I prefer Magebred Ghost Dire Tigers (Ghost just means they're white, eh?) for a Brelish druid or a Dragonhawk for an Aundairian druid.

 

[airwalkrr]

Allowing animals to level up is a very good idea. Smootrk's idea of allowing them 50% XP is a very good fix for this system. To help make it work, you could also make advanced animals available. Their cost increases according to the following formula: base cost x (bonus HD squared). So a heavy warhorse with one bonus HD would cost 800 gp. With two bonus HD it would cost 2,000 gp. Etc. I would cap this kind of advancement though for balance's sake. Something akin to no more than twice the number of normal HD. Anyone know why you can't advance a warhorse according to the RAW anyway?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Amazingly, that's the same ruling I've had for the last couple of years. Animals get 50% xp for combats that they are involved. It lets a warhorse get a bit beefier but they never really become powerhouses. They are generally more likely to survive a fireball, at which point the special trick "retreat 50' and wait" becomes reeeeeaaaal useful.

We found that bandits appear to be the chosen enemy of warhorses. They inevitably due massive damage to highway robbers. Very comical watching an 11th level fighter be outclassed by his warhorse b/c the dice think it is funny.

 

[frankthedm]

Anyone know why you can't advance a warhorse according to the RAW anyway?

1. Human[iod] breeders have been centuries selective breeding a larger, stronger, tougher horse. the end result is the warhorse.

2. The extreme damage one can do while mounted is well balanced by the ease a mount is killed out from underneath most characters. An advance version of a warhorse would reduce this balance.

3. There was a dire horse in one of the 3.0 monster books IIRC for those who want a higher HD horse.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

What we did: take Leadership as your cohort get a special horse, it has above average ability scores (like a standard cohort) and it advances by animal hit dice (Horse LA is +1 we decided).

Its weaker than a classed cohort unfortunatley but pretty fair.
Plenty of precedent for horse cohorts historically, tons of named mounts (Babieca, Bucephalus and Traveller come to mind).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Allowing animals to level up is a very good idea.

Not if they're just getting animal HD. Wild Cohort has the advantage of boosting AC, not just hit points. You need both to get a good mount.

 

[smootrk]

Not if they're just getting animal HD. Wild Cohort has the advantage of boosting AC, not just hit points. You need both to get a good mount.

I agree, however the leveling in animal levels is 'feat or special feature' independant. Having some feats that either the character (or the animal itself) can take to improve AC is acceptible. I can see parallel feats to the Armor specializations (heavy armor/barding optimization or what ever those are called - no book in front of me at the moment). Certainly the Animal gains the feats at the same rate (every 3 HD/levels), so may be able to make even other more variable improvements.

Smarter mounts could/would have other more advanced options. Just think of a Smart Warhorse that takes Fighter levels with the bonus feats allowed, or the Paladin Warhorse who also has a few levels of Paladin to work with as well. Although I wonder what kind of mount a mount would take?? :\

These learned improvements are IMO compatable with the Class Feature or Feat Improved features (like Wild Cohort, or additional HD/abilities for Rangers/Paladins etc.) I don't think much balance is threatened especially in games where the characters hit mid or advanced levels, as the mount is still going to be left behind in the power scheme.

 

[Sejs]

Is it possible to "level" a warhorse somehow?

Wrap its load bearing supports in explosives. Remote detonate those simultaneously; the weight of the mount's envelope will then drag the whole structure to the ground in a nice, controlled manner.

There you go - one leveled warhorse.