It's ironic that you're arguing against a "not credible" hypothetical with a not credible hypothetical where everyone agrees to short rest all of the time. I've seen a party full of long rest players overrule the fighter or the warlock many, many, many times in the past 10 years. At a real table in real life, wizards and clerics who've spent very little short rest abilities are often very willing to say "let's just keep going" if their dailies are still there.
If everyone gets a long rest every time you could get a short rest, that just shows how busted 1 hour rests are. That just hurts the short rest class more. Time for a change.
The only "ironic" part of this exchange is you not noticing that your game of three card monte has changed the scenario from an assumed possibility of "your party doesn't
want to short rest
because they're too long" into the entirely different scenario of "
a party full of long rest players overrule the fighter or the warlock"... That
new scenario
is credible, but the reasons aren't ones that bode well for the parasite of SR class design being bolted onto a non-ADEU game & unlike SR spamming by SR classes there are a lot of reasons LR spamming is not encouraged by the system or shielded by the social contract. I'd include monk in with that fighter & warlock, despite being harder to quantify what they get from a SR they grow to be just as inverted given enough SR as their pool grows beyond what they could realistically burn in 1-2 fights.
All of that ties into a point raised by Horwath though so keep reading.
Sometimes sarcasm can be subtle & tough to tell from a serious statement with no sarcasm & I'm not sure if this is agreement for emphasis or sarcastically pushing for a similar explanation of the two statements that follow. Either way I'll try to cover it because it's relevant to the new scenario presented by NaturalZero.
also when there is time for 1hr "short" rest, usually is time for a long rest also.
and that again works against classes that are more based on short rest.
It's completely true that there is usually tine for a LR if there is time for a 1hr SR, both of those are a problem caused by bad design in 5e's rest & recovery rules that makes them both too easy to start/successfully complete & so massive in their returns that it's almost impossible to feel the risks are too high. When comparing a mostly SR class party (as I did in the quoted
post 91) to NaturalZero's
post93 new scenario of a mostly LR party there are factors that encourage one side of the example to spam their rests while being shielded by mechanics & the social contract even as they move into doing it abusively. Going the other way around is not in any way encouraged by the mechanics and is absolutely discouraged by both the social contract & the mechanics.
The post91 SR heavy class group is the easiest to cover & also
91 comes before 93 so I'll start with them. SR classes begin the game needing lots of SR to keep up & what they get back on those rests is not something the LR classes in post93 really considers to be equal or greater to the sum total of their A+ & S tier abilities. Having a big pile of A/A-/B+ abilities doesn't disrupt the game too much so those SR classes get powerful abilities like Agonizing repelling blast various build relevant invocations & the
new bladelock thing to bridge the gap in a unique way that allows
both sides to
credibly claim they can do their thing better. As levels grow though the SR gains strength on both sides of the SR pool (size & the power of what it gives) as well as the strength of those gap bridging abilities until any one of the three can mostly bridge the gap on its own given a SR or two. That trend continues until things are completely reversed & every SR just further widens the reversed gap.
Everyone comes to d&d hoping to have fun rather than suspecting their fellow players (often friends) of abusing them so when the SR classes say "lets take a short rest" the minority of LR classes will generally just shrug & go along with it with a reflexive "sure" because the SR classes do need at least some SRs. As the gap narrows & the SR classes should be leaning more on their gap bridging abilities in order to take less SRs it's difficult for the LR class players to realize "bob's abusing the mechanics
and it's hurting my fun" but they are in the minority so get dragged along with it. If the LR classes try to resist yet another letstTakeAShortRest they might be able to resist & urge for the group to push on a bit, but they can't dig in without donning the unsavory mantle of villain of the table. THe SR classes in that post91 scenario never get checked & can keep expecting to be guaranteed the SR they now "
need" to keep up with the LR players who were more conservative in their resource burn so the SR class players actually wind up leaning even more heavily on their SR abilities rather than making efforts towards shifting focus to leaning more heavily on their powerful gab bridging at will abilities so they truly "need" a SR because of their combined ability to force a cool kids club exclusive 5mwd on the table as a SR class majority party.
NaturalZero's
post93 scenario inverts the majority & now the group is majority LR classes with a minority of SR classes instead of being the other way around. The narrowing & eventual inversion of the gap between SR based encounter powers & LR class LR resource pools but this time the LR classes have the majority and can carry the group if the SR classes are forced to rely on their at will abilities for a fight or two & can just say no when letstTakeAShortRest calls become abusive. The LR majority can also resist and say no when the letstTakeAShortRest call is being made because they feel the SR classes were being pretty excessive dumping all those fireballs & flurry/stunning strikes on that handful of geriatric zombies just because the SR classes
could.
Unlike the post91 majority SR group the post 93 majority LR group has both mechanical and social reasons to avoid abusively spamming LR like the SR majority spams SRs. Mechanically there is nothing to justify needing all of those rests just because they used their biggest baddest smite spellslot or whatever & more importantly after tier1 or so they can't realistically burn so many resources in a fight or two that they are forced to rely on cantrips & default attack. On the
social front the majority LR group is still discouraged from forcing a 5mwd with extreme LR spam simply because they still need to look across the table at their SR class playing friend(s) while sitting on the LR granted embarrassment of riches they can't even spend. While it might be hard for the post91 LR minority to cross the line & start suspecting their fellow players of abusively taking excessive SRs because they still have some spell slots & such... the minority SR class players in the post93 majority LR class group have a much easier time noticing the embarrassment of riches and credibly pointing at it to cry foul.
Perhaps the warlock is being
overruled because they are very much attempting to engage in a rest schedule or playstyle deserving of a unanimous
YTA and need to do some introspection into the reasons for earning it.
