D&D (2024) Limiting Short Rests to 2x/day

[tetrasodium]

Or you need the short rest to restore fewer resources.

The core short rest mechanic is spending hit dice to regain hit points. Since your hit dice don't recharge until a long rest, more short rests would not shift the balance significantly. (It would slightly increase the value of hit dice, because spreading your hit die rolls out across more short rests means less "overkill" where you roll higher than expected and hit your max. But the benefit of this would be very small.)

The place where balance concerns arise is class abilities that recharge on a short rest, and in a lot of cases (e.g., monk ki/discipline/whatever they end up calling it) you can simply chop the ability's points or uses in half and call it a day. I only see two class features that would require serious effort to rebalance: Warlock spell slots, and fighter Action Surge. Spell slots are the toughest because, with the right mix of feats and multiclassing, they can be used for almost any spell in the book, which opens up a vast number of possibilities for abuse. Action Surge is difficult because it's unitary -- you either have it or you don't -- and very powerful.

Still, these are not unsolvable problems.

We aren't talking about second & third edition* with the 5e hit dice mechanic grafted on. The HP attrition model present in 5e is not one where going into the next fight with all most or only a few HP is going to be a meaningful concern due to PHB197 & healing word/1hpLoH/Healing Light/etc.

*maybe 4e too, I dunno

 

[Tony Vargas]

This kind of tinkering around the edges to avoid fixing the root problems caused by the adventuring-day scaled attrition model and the infamous martial/caster gap.

Short rest could be a minute, 5, 10, 15 min, an hour, or a day; long rests a 6 hrs, 8 hrs max 1/day, or a week - as long as all PCs benefited from them roughly equally.

 

[Stalker0]

My problem is the hard limit. As a neurodivergent person, I alternate between activity and resting multiple times throughout the day. The idea that a 3rd or 4th "break" won't help does not reasonate with me.

Try running for an hour, and then take a 5 minute break. Then run another hour and take another 5 min break. Rinse and repeat. Let me know if after the 4th hour of running if the 5 minute break is helping you as much as that first break did.

Lets remember that most short rests are not "oh I'm a little winded", its "I literally fought to the death against some magical thing from a nightmare novel, and I barely escaped with my limbs intact".

Honestly capping it to me is a lot more "realistic" than leaving it unlimited. The idea that a human could expose themself physically and mentally to that kind of thing 4,5,6 times a day and could rally themselves with a "quick breather" each time is pretty crazy.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

The place where balance concerns arise is class abilities that recharge on a short rest, and in a lot of cases (e.g., monk ki/discipline/whatever they end up calling it) you can simply chop the ability's points or uses in half and call it a day. I only see two class features that would require serious effort to rebalance: Warlock spell slots, and fighter Action Surge. Spell slots are the toughest because, with the right mix of feats and multiclassing, they can be used for almost any spell in the book, which opens up a vast number of possibilities for abuse. Action Surge is difficult because it's unitary -- you either have it or you don't -- and very powerful.

Still, these are not unsolvable problems.

I was thinking that unlimited 5-minute Short Rests is an issue because at that rate, Short Rest becomes synonymous with "Encounter" abilities. But if you look at out of combat abilities, it completely impacts worldbuilding. A Tier 3 warlock can cast three 5th level spells slots every 5 minutes. They literally can say "I can do this all day."

Just using the current Warlock spell list and subclasses, without altering them for a rules update:

A Celestialock gets unlimited powerful healing.
A Feylock gets unlimited Plant Growth, better for a pastoral community than a druid.
A Daolock gets unlimited Wall of Stone for construction purposes.
A GOOlock gets unlimited divination-style spells and charms.
An Undeadlock gets unlimited Death Ward and Speak With Dead.
An Undyinglock also gets unlimited Contagion to ruin the world.

I can't be alone in my concerns about extrapolating how design impacts worldbuilding assumptions, as well as player shenanigans.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Try running for an hour, and then take a 5 minute break. Then run another hour and take another 5 min break. Rinse and repeat. Let me know if after the 4th hour of running if the 5 minute break is helping you as much as that first break did.

TBF, D&D combat rounds have been 6 seconds for rather a long while, and 5e leans into 'fast combat' so not that many rounds. So, like, sprint or power-lift or something for 30 seconds maybe a minute at the outide, rest for an hour.

I'm sure you could look up the physiological data, like ADP and glycogen and whatnot and find how long it takes to recover from some amount of intense exertion, and how many intense exertion/rest itterations is supportable for what level of general health....

...but it's a fantasy game

I can't be alone in my concerns about extrapolating how design impacts worldbuilding assumptions, as well as player shenanigans.

It'd be nice if you were.
But, there are a number of ways out of that issue. One is "PCs are special." If there's only 3 warlocks in the world, it doesn't matter what kinda crazy shennanigans they can get up to. It's when you take chargen as demography that it all goes insane. (and, y'know, EGG designed chargen with statistics in mind - he did work in insurance, I seem to recall hearing - so it's not like it was implausible to take it that way, back in the day).

You could also plead "bag of rats" - 'encounter' abilities only recharge so readily when they've been used in an encounter and there's more encounters in the offing (due to adrenaline or heroism or whatever).
Downtime, you can have more sedate rules for using and re-using such abilities.

You could get arbitrary about "encounters" - like recharges when initiative is rolled. "Well crap, send some more of the city guard to attack the warlock so we can get these walls built" "but, it has to be a 'real' fight, so he's killing them!" "Yeah, plus sooner or later one of them will get in a lucky shot and kill the warlock!" "Fine, we won't have to pay him. Now get them in there, the project is behind schedule!"

Oh, and if you are talking in-world implications, regular daily casters are also terrifying, since they can systematically cast such spells on a daily basis - over months and years, that gets crazy, too!

 

[Incenjucar]

I see no value in making the game revolve around the wants and needs of full casters even more.

 

[tetrasodium]

TBF, D&D combat rounds have been 6 seconds for rather a long while, and 5e leans into 'fast combat' so not that many rounds. So, like, sprint or power-lift or something for 30 seconds maybe a minute at the outide, rest for an hour.

I'm sure you could look up the physiological data, like ADP and glycogen and whatnot and find how long it takes to recover from some amount of intense exertion, and how many intense exertion/rest itterations is supportable for what level of general health....

...but it's a fantasy game


It'd be nice if you were.
But, there are a number of ways out of that issue. One is "PCs are special." If there's only 3 warlocks in the world, it doesn't matter what kinda crazy shennanigans they can get up to. It's when you take chargen as demography that it all goes insane. (and, y'know, EGG designed chargen with statistics in mind - he did work in insurance, I seem to recall hearing - so it's not like it was implausible to take it that way, back in the day).

You could also plead "bag of rats" - 'encounter' abilities only recharge so readily when they've been used in an encounter and there's more encounters in the offing (adrenaline or heroism or whatever). Downtime, you can have more sedate rules for using and re-using such abilities.

Oh, and if you are talking in-world implications, regular daily casters are also terrifying, since they can systematically cast such spells on a daily basis - over months and years, that gets crazy, too!

It's a big problem even outside of worldbuilding concerns that matter a whole lot as soon as there is one or more players not playing a warlock or monk when the group hits at those levels.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

My problem is the hard limit. As a neurodivergent person, I alternate between activity and resting multiple times throughout the day. The idea that a 3rd or 4th "break" won't help does not reasonate with me.

I totally understand that, but my situation is that the more downtime I have between projects or work activity, it becomes increasingly hard for me to get motivated and have initiative to accomplish anything. Does not matter if I'm at my cubicle job or my grocery job - I'm terrible when famine turns to feast.

 

[Minigiant]

A short rest is 1d6 minutes per hour since your last rest to a maximum of 60 minutes.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Try running for an hour, and then take a 5 minute break. Then run another hour and take another 5 min break. Rinse and repeat. Let me know if after the 4th hour of running if the 5 minute break is helping you as much as that first break did.

I tried completing this experiment as a canonically hardy dwarf or a magical elf and was unable to.