Look who made the big time

[Mercule]

That's what he did to the game. He turned D&D players into social outcasts even among role players for a decade and a half!

Considering D&D was the only roleplaying game for most of that decade and a half that he worked at TSR, I think this claim is highly dubious.

Beyond that, all I have to say is "whatever". Gygax (and Arneson) created the hobby. Gygax took it to the big time. Without that, we wouldn't have had the other RPGs.

Do I like d20 better than the original and advanced rules? Yup, buy a bunch. Do I like other systems, like Storyteller and Hero better than earlier editions of D&D? Yup.

On the other hand, early D&D was based on pretty much nothing, roleplay-wise. I'm willing to forgive an aweful lot of shortcomings for that. Anything else is like saying Edison contributed nothing to modern life because he only invented the incadencent light rather than flourescent and the phonograph rather than the CD.

 

[barsoomcore]

He turned D&D players into social outcasts even among role players for a decade and a half!

Right. You're a social outcast because of Gary Gygax. Because he wrote articles in a magazine.

I hope Mr. Gygax will forgive me for doubting the breadth of his powers, but I find your claim hard to swallow. When I can see so many OTHER reasons why you're a social outcast.

Sorry mods! Bad barsoomcore! No cookie!

 

[Teflon Billy]

He can handle it.

Hell, we've watched him handle it

Edit: I stripped the quoted text, since I deleted the quoted post, which was responding to a post that I deleted for being a personal attack adding nothing to the thread. --Dinkeldog

 

[Celtavian]

re

I never heard anything bad about Gary Gygax. He seems like a great guy to me, very open to gamers everywhere.

 

[Dirigible]

Why he might not be annoying
...
D&D was the basis for many popular video games, including 'Legend of Zelda' and 'Final Fantasy.'

Huh. They got that under the wrong heading.
And yeah, Futurama beats the heck out of some wesite I've never heard of.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I could see about not seeing eye-to-eye on style of play with Mr Gygax, I wasn't involved in the seventies and eighties (not till '89 at least), and don't know the whole story between Arenson (sp?) and Gygax, so I have no opinion.

I can respect him for the history he helped to create, though. I like the game industry, and the direction it is going, and he was/is a part of that. All style differences aside, I can give kudos to that.

 

[Wicht]

Gygax actively encouraged a vindictive and adversarial relationship between the DM and the players. And he actively encouraged an adversarial relationship between D&D players and players of other games.

I take it you don't like Hackmaster or KoDT then?

 

[Berandor]

I'd just like to point out that Mr. Gygax is an ENWorld member who regularly reads and posts here. As such, I think it's pretty poor form to be calling him scum, accusing him of theft, and ripping him a new one for his DMG atrocities. Regardless of what you think of his DMing style or his business decisions, a little more tact might be in order. Manners, people, manners!

I just can't let that stand.

First, I think it's impolite to call someone "scum" or accusing someone of theft (unproven), no matter whether he reads it or not.

Second, if you really feel the need to insult someone that way, you better do it to his face, or where he can read it, then in secrecy.

FrankTrollman is, if a bit rash, honest to his opinion. If Mr. Gygax wants to address his concerns, he can - right in this board. I respect that.

Also, perhaps it's a misspelling, and he meant Gygax was "Skum", meaning he is an amphibious servant to aboleths

B

 

[Rashak Mani]

I thought instigating powergaming was one of his accused crimes... his adventures were overfilled with treasure and magic items.

We just have to remember that Gygax hating is a 1st Ed purist phenomena and that even thou it might have been warranted back in the 80's ... its part of the past. TSR eventually caved in and was sold out... so something was wrong. (2nd edition aside). I think Egos were running high and wild back then... which lent itself for a lot of these conflicts.

I do suppose Gygax must have answered questions on these topics several times before... so do please start posting links to information about why and when.

 

[DMScott]

I'm serious here, so if anyone can answer; please do...

Does anyone have any idea what unforgivable thing "Gamers" (us) think Gary "did to the game"?

Because I am pretty much onside with Spielman on this.

My personal tastes up front: I really like Gygax's adventures. I really don't think he's very good at writing rulebooks and non-adventure supplements. Also, my opinions are those of a gamer with no special knowledge of the industry.

Back in the early 80s, there were two main reasons Gygax wasn't viewed with universal love among gamers, and they're somewhat interconnected. The first was the sprawl of the AD&D rules system, which was spread over more than a dozen hardcover rulebooks and many other supplements - a lot of it very poorly balanced (which may not have been Gygax' fault, but still was seen as his responsibility - his name was on the cover, after all). Second, was the stance on official AD&D products and intellectual property - I still remember tossing a Dragon magazine across the room after reading a Gygax editorial piece that said I wasn't playing AD&D unless all my gaming stuff had TSR logos on it. These two aspects combined to produce an unfriendly environment at conventions and such. Imagine being told you're not playing AD&D because you use a supplement by Judges' Guild!

So, I was one of the gamers who was happy to see him out of TSR. Reading some of his other stuff post-TSR didn't make me change my mind - Cyborg Commando had an entertaining setting but really awful rules, Role-Playing Mastery and Mastery of the Game looked like they were trying to set up a level advancement system for players and DMS, and the Dangerous Journeys stuff ranged from "OK" on down to "awful". The d20 era, allowing other companies such a huge amount of access to D&D, seems to me to be a 180 degree turn from the position Gygax took.

In summary, I like a lot of his work. Any Gygax adventure is pretty much an automatic buy for me. I'm really happy he helped create the game that has given me such enjoyment for about 25 years. But I'm also happy he left TSR when he did.