LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[molonel]

I'm just saying, I looked in the book and don't see it. Sure I may have missed it, but I looked right where the attack occurs. They find the cloak, he points at the little slash and says Frodo's useless and ugly, then says that calling on Elbereth probably did it. Plus they were only 5 of the 9 and probably not sure of pressing their luck so close to the Ring.

As I recall - and I'm going from memory here, which is nearly always a mistake, but I'm at work - someone told Frodo about Aragorn jumping in and driving them off, later.

In all honesty, there seemed in Tolkien's mythology to be power in the last king of Numenor that was involved in driving the Nine away. That was why athelas works in his hands, why the dead army follows him and why he has the power to drive away the Nine.

Tolkien didn't have to develop consistent game mechanics. He was writing a story.

Nyah, they'd have blown all their money on magic swords.

Nah, they found those for free in the Barrow Downs.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

We had an interesting conversation over the weekend about LOTR if you were running it as a RPG. This is not system-based, like talking about MERP or D&D or GURPS, but rather a discussion about how fiction works differently from a RPG.

The obvious solution was to fly the ring into Mordor on the backs of giant eagles. Quicker, faster, less dangerous.

What do you think?

Indeed. This is a well-recognized plot hole and has been discussed many times. Books are books, RPGs are RPGs. My players are definitely smarter than any fantasy author would be.

 

[Vocenoctum]

As I recall - and I'm going from memory here, which is nearly always a mistake, but I'm at work - someone told Frodo about Aragorn jumping in and driving them off, later.

In all honesty, there seemed in Tolkien's mythology to be power in the last king of Numenor that was involved in driving the Nine away. That was why athelas works in his hands, why the dead army follows him and why he has the power to drive away the Nine.

He must have had Turning. Must have taken some paladin levels!

Nah, they found those for free in the Barrow Downs.

Sold them all for half price at Rivendell!

 

[molonel]

Indeed. This is a well-recognized plot hole and has been discussed many times. Books are books, RPGs are RPGs. My players are definitely smarter than any fantasy author would be.

Would that his fans could be so honest:

"The most critical reader of all, myself, now finds many defects, minor and major, but being unfortunately under no obligation either to review the book or to write it again, he will pass over these in silence, except one that has been noted by others: the book is too short." (LoTR I, 9-10)

---

Tolkien acknowledges that the eagles are problematic as a literary device; it is difficult to constrain these powerful entities once they exist in Tolkien's world:


"The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit of their credibility or usefulness. The alighting of a Great Eagle of the Misty Mountains in the Shire is absurd; it also makes the later capture of G. [Gandalf] by Saruman incredible, and spoils the account of his escape." (Letter 210)

That web page is probably the best consideration of this topic that I've seen.

Thank you.

 

[molonel]

He must have had Turning. Must have taken some paladin levels!

Unfortunately, as they are powerful undead doubtless with many hit dice, this does not explain it.

And he doesn't seem lawful. Perchance a paladin of freedom variant?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofFreedomClassFeatures

Sold them all for half price at Rivendell!

Doh!

 

[Vocenoctum]

Unfortunately, as they are powerful undead doubtless with many hit dice, this does not explain it.

And he doesn't seem lawful. Perchance a paladin of freedom variant?

I'm sure the Numenoar race is allowed to take paladin levels with no alignment penalty. Aragorns player is quite the powergamer. Maybe he's a Gestalt.

Maybe they are all gestalts! The hobbits just took Commoner/ Expert instead of real classes. Frodo and Sam definetly reek of those kinds of players that take a penalty because it "accentuates our roleplaying". Merry & Pippin of course are the absentee players that show up once in a while to disrupt things...

 

[GwydapLlew]

If the intention of the OP is to handle LotR as an RPG, then we've gone a bit far afield.

I'll be the first to admit that the eagle approach is an attractive solution; I'll also freely state that I consider it 'too easy' from a storytelling or a DM point-of-view.

Viewed as a DM, I would insure that Sauron's defenses would encompass aerial attacks and scouting. It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it were that easy, would it?

 

[molonel]

If the intention of the OP is to handle LotR as an RPG, then we've gone a bit far afield. I'll be the first to admit that the eagle approach is an attractive solution; I'll also freely state that I consider it 'too easy' from a storytelling or a DM point-of-view. Viewed as a DM, I would insure that Sauron's defenses would encompass aerial attacks and scouting. It wouldn't be much of a challenge if it were that easy, would it?

I think the funniest thing, though, is when you come up with a solution the DM didn't anticipate, and everyone sees it in his or her face, and then they have to scramble to explain why it can't work.

 

[molonel]

Merry & Pippin of course are the absentee players that show up once in a while to disrupt things...

Oh, I've TOTALLY had Merry and Pippin in my gaming group.

Buncha punks. They always bring beer, and play Nintendo, and get bored easily and throw rocks at the balrog.

They don't care. If you kill their characters, they'll just come back as something else equally annoying.

You have to nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[GwydapLlew]

I think the funniest thing, though, is when you come up with a solution the DM didn't anticipate, and everyone sees it in his or her face, and then they have to scramble to explain why it can't work.

Yeah, it's amusing, unless you are the DM!

I generally try to say 'yes' in my games, and then think of ways to make it a challenge.