Magic item price: Magical Thief's Tools!

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Actually, he's got a point, Nail.

If they're slotless, as you surmise, then there's no real difference in having a set of "Magical Lockpicks (+5 Competence Bonus when Picking Locks)" and a "Magical Trap Kit (+5 Competence Bonus when Disarming Device)", as compared to a set of "Magical Thieves' Tools (+5 Competence to PL and DD)."

Therefore, since they aren't slotted,

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So that wouldn't apply at all.

EDIT:

I might, having looked it over again, even rule that because the same set of items - a masterwork set of thieves' tools - applies equally to Disable Device and Open Locks checks, that competence bonuses to the same are actually "Multiple Similar Abilities."

That would make the cost actually:

• +5 competance bonus to disable device: 5*5*100= 2,500 gp.
• +5 competance bonus to open locks: 5*5*100=2,500gp
• These are multiple similar abilities, so: 2,500gp * 0.75= 1,875 gp
• Slotless item: (2,500gp + 1,875gp) * 2 = 8,750 gp
• add the cost of masterwork thief's tools: +100 gp
• TOTAL PRICE: 8,850gp

EDIT 2:

To conclude, it's either a slotless item, in which case the x1.5 multiplier on additional abilities does not apply, or it is a slotted item, in which case the x2 total does not apply. You cannot apply both.

Also, I'm not entirely certain that it's a slotless item. A truly slotless item is something that you need only have on your person in order to benefit from. These tools must be actively held in the hand and used in order to benefit from them.

A slotless item that granted the above abilities would, for example, be a Brooch of the Masterthief, and would apply whether or not you were using MW thieves' tools, or, really, any tools at all.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The Vest of Escape is a "sloted" item, therefore no x2 cost....

Moreover, the "item" is actually two magic items: a vest and a set of Thieves tools. Given that, it's not surprising the total market price is the sum of the tow item's individual market prices.

Interesting you should bring this up in support of your case, Nail.

You'll notice that, at 5,200gp, the vest exactly follows the base formula for a competence bonus to a skill - specifically, it adds a +6 Competence bonus to one skill (3,600gp) and a +4 Compentence bonus to another (1,600gp).

Given that it is a slotted item, then multiple dissimilar abilities should suffer price increases. You'll notice that, in this case, they don't. Instead, they are treated as two distinct separate items.

So, two separate items: a vest and a set of lock picks. The vest, obviously, is slotted. The lockpicks, by your earlier logic, are not, and therefore should cost twice as much as a slotted item.

You'll notice that they don't cost any more than a set of Bracers of Lockpicking would.

I believe this provides ample evidence that lockpicks / thieves' tools are, in fact, a slotted item, and therefore should not be hit with the x2 multiplier.

EDIT: This would bring the cost from above down to 4,475gp for a slotted, two similar abilities, +5 Competence bonus, item.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm just looking at the cost of the vest of escape and the bonusses provided. Following the formula in use here:

+6 competence bonus to escape artist: 6*6*100=3,600gp
+4 competence bonus to open locks: 4*4*100=1,600gp
Extra power after the first: 1,600*1.5=2,400
Price: 6,000gp

One could alternately argue that, since the tools provide the bonus to open locks independent of the vest, they are not slotted and therefore should cost 3,200, adding an extra 800gp onto the total cost.

The DMG does neither, however, and apparently treats them as a pair of slotted item at 5,200gp.

By comparison to the vest of escape, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to charge 5,000gp or so for the thieves' tools that grant a +5 bonus to open locks and disable device. It's not exactly the same as the DMG guidelines would indicate but they're guidelines rather than strict rules.

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm not convinced that these are worth the high price. "Slotless" items usually can be used without holding them in the hand, can't they? Ioun stones, for example, are slotless; a rod of intelligence that gives you a +2 intelligence when you hold it would not be slotless.

Unless these thieve's tools give you the bonus when they're sitting in your backpack, I think they'd be slotted.

One thing I'm sure of, however: pricing for new magic items goes in House Rules .

Daniel

 

[dcollins]

Thank you moderator!

 

[ARandomGod]

I'm not convinced that these are worth the high price. "Slotless" items usually can be used without holding them in the hand, can't they? Ioun stones, for example, are slotless; a rod of intelligence that gives you a +2 intelligence when you hold it would not be slotless.

Unless these thieve's tools give you the bonus when they're sitting in your backpack, I think they'd be slotted.

One thing I'm sure of, however: pricing for new magic items goes in House Rules .

Daniel

Looking at other items supports the idea that the items should not be slotless.

Looking at + to skills items OTHER than the boots (which, if you look at those boots and other items those boots are foolishly overpriced for what they do, boots of expiditious retreat would cost less, give more speed AND more jump bonus... but I digress if you look at other than that item) you'll see that it isn't always required for the maker to have the skill to make the item.

Additionally, you might realize that there is some justification for making this item a thief only item. If you were to do this you'd get the 30% cost discount on the item. Always a lovely discount if you can justify it.

If you want to make it without that thief only discount, I suggest you throw in the thief's ability to find and disarm magical traps for free, for those non-thieves who want to pick up a non intelligent thief sidekick.

 

[Tuzenbach]

How many tools are we talkin' about here? If one tool becomes separated from the rest, is it still magical? Could the tools be split amongst a group of thieves operating in concert with each other, but in totally different areas? Sorry, I'm a pedantic detail guy!

 

[Nail]

This is *not* house rule material. I'm trying to interpret RAW to give me the price for a magic item.....not making up some other rule out of whole cloth.

This thread should go back in the Rules forum.

 

[sdt]

I would price this set of tools at 2600 gps each; unless there is one tool that does both Open Locks and Disable Device.

 

[ARandomGod]

I would price this set of tools at 2600 gps each; unless there is one tool that does both Open Locks and Disable Device.

The magical +5 compentence bonus on the tools should include the +2 masterwork bonus (yes, weapons don't give MW bonus when enchanted, but the cost is different, and the plus to the weapon is much less, +1/2 really, the enchantment type is different, etc).

so for the enchantment cost of 2500 each (plus the cost of masterwork tools, each) you should be able to get a set of tools that open locks at +7 and a set of tools that disable device at +7. Five of those pluses should be compentence bonuses.