[Magic Item] Thumb Ring of Might

[jontherev]

I agree with Karinsdad for the most part. The ability to pick up a normal, unmighty magical bow and suddenly be able to make it into a mighty bow is really powerful. In fact, it doesn't really sit well with me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once bows are made, they are what they are. To do what you are asking with magic, shouldn't it require a Limited Wish (or perhaps even a Wish) or something to recreate the bow into a mighty bow with every single shot? Or perhaps, Warp Wood that instantaneously warps and unwarps the bow everytime it is used to make it "mightier"...even though the spell doesn't really work like that. As it is, it seems like a metagaming item to me that doesn't make sense, even given a fantastical setting. Ask yourself how a ring with bull's strength is supposed to alter the very structure of the bow to allow it to be used more impressively by those who are stronger than normal. YMMV.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I don't find this assumption in the ruleset at all. In fact, one could argue the exact opposite: since the cost of "mighty" is so low compared to the cost of the enhancement bonus, wouldn't everyone who bothered to enchant a bow make it mighty first?

Maybe if you looked at the rules?


Table: Common Ranged Weapons
d% Weapon
-- ------
...
42-46 Shortbow
47-51 Shortbow, composite
52-56 Shortbow, mighty composite (+1 Str bonus)
57-61 Shortbow, mighty composite (+2 Str bonus)
62-65 Sling
66-75 Longbow
76-80 Longbow, composite
81-85 Longbow, mighty composite (+1 Str bonus)
86-90 Longbow, mighty composite (+2 Str bonus)
91-95 Longbow, mighty composite (+3 Str bonus)
96-100 Longbow, mighty composite (+4 Str bonus)


According to the chart, only 54% of the bows are mighty, only 18% mighty +3 or +4. Apparently a lot of people who enchant bows do not bother to find mighty ones first.

 

[Tetsubo]

Thank you for all the input.

This item would function only with non-magical bows. I didn't include that in the description but should have. It literally didn't occur to me.

I'd be giving this item to a specific character that has a ST of 14, so no +5 anytime soon.

I am tight with magic items in general. Most of the party will be 2nd or 3rd level before they ever see a +anything magic weapon. And they are darn unlikely to ever see anything more than +3.

I think a cost of 3000 gp (sp in my campaign) and a caster level of 3rd is what I will go with.

My thanks.

 

[KarinsDad]

If I'm reading this correctly, this ring does one thing: turns the bow into a MCB +5.

What would a ring cost that adds +2 to hit, +2 damage to any bow, regardless of which enhancements are already on it?

The main discussion point here is that MCB is WAY too cheap in the first place.

It should be something like:

x * x * 250 GP (creation cost) as compared to the x * x * 1000 GP for enchanted weapons.

If this were the case (i.e. a reasonable core rule), then nobody would be thinking that 10,000 GP creation, 20,000 GP market value was really that high for an +5 MCB "any bow" item since putting +5 MCB on a single bow would be 6,250 GP creation, 12,500 GP market value.

MCB creation costs are broken compared to magic weapons costs and Bracers of Archery costs. Why would you even condone continuing that trend for a magical item that can boost damage for every bow an archer ever picks up in his entire lifetime?

This is like asking the question: How much would a Ring of Bow Flaming Burst which adds that ability to any bow be worth?

Well, +5 MCB has to be worth about as much as +1D6 Flaming Burst since the damage for +5 MCB is greater on average than Flaming Burst (upwards of +5 vs. +3.5), even on a critical (upwards of +10 vs. +8). The DR vs. flame resistance issue is not relevant, an opponent could be relatively resistant to either. Flaming Burst is a +2 bonus item.

Flaming Burst for a single bow increases the Market Value by:

+1 16,000
+2 24,000
+3 32,000
+4 40,000
+5 48,000

How much more will a Ring that gives Flaming Burst to any bow be worth?

I think people are getting caught up in the wimpy broken MCB costs and not thinking in real game balance terms, specifically, magic item creation balance terms.

 

[Astlin]

"We have two archers in my campaign, both of whom would rather use magical melee weapons against DR opponents as opposed to using up their magic arrows. Every archer-type character I've ever seen does this: use magic arrows only when extremely necessary. Maybe your experience is different and your archers use magic arrows every time they face a DR opponent, but I seriously doubt that this is the status quo for most players."

You have spent all of your feats and cash to improve your ability at ranged combat ... and you are going to drop your bow as soon as you encounter a mob with DR? To each his own.


I bought and had enchanted a +4 MCLB. At the time I could only use 2 points of the bonus. May just be me, but I would rather have something that I can grow into as opposed to selling it for a loss and be forced to buy a new one.


I like what was mentioned about limiting it to the max that the bow could handle (max of +4 for a MCLB).


Astlin

 

[KarinsDad]

You have spent all of your feats and cash to improve your ability at ranged combat ... and you are going to drop your bow as soon as you encounter a mob with DR?

Yes, quite often.

Our characters do not have 50 or 100 or more magic arrows at a time as a general rule, either in the games I DM, or the games I play in.

They sometimes get as high as 30 or 40 magic arrows, but typically they are carrying around less then 20 each. One DR combat can easily suck up 5, 10 or even more arrows right there, especially at medium and higher levels when an archer often gets 3 or more attacks per round. For example, virtually every single one of our archers take Rapid Shot by third level (sometimes even at first level), so even low level archers can be using up 2 magic arrows per round.

If they used up their magic arrows every single DR combat, they could run out of them in a few days (or even a few combats). That’s typically a lot more risky in the long run than going in and swinging a sword.

And, at 40 GP purchase price per +1 arrow, it gets quite pricey real quick. +2 arrows cost 160 GP each.

So, a +1 arrow costs nearly as much as a Potion of Cure Light Wounds, except that you cannot purchase a Wand of it for a reduced cost (although you may have a party spell caster who might have Craft Magic Arms and Armor if you are lucky).

But basically, our archers are fighter types, sometimes with a few other classes mixed in. They have high Dexterity, medium to high Strength, high hit points, reasonable ACs, and quite a few Fighter feats. Hence, they have no problem with using a +1 Sword to do nearly the same damage as using a +1 Arrow when necessary. They wouldn’t be stupid enough to not be able to go into melee combat considering that in combat, you often do not have a choice. And, they can sure as heck use a sword a lot more than 50 times.

Our archers also go out of their way to get Bows that increase their ability without using magic arrows. For example, one of the PC archers in my Saturday game had a Holy Bow crafted so that he would still be doing Holy damage against evil creatures, with or without DR, even with normal arrows.

But, if your experience is different, ok. I doubt most archer PCs have a boatload of magic arrows to use in every DR combat, but I admit that’s just an opinion on my part and not based on anything more than common sense unless you are talking a Monty Haul campaign with bunches of magic arrows in bags of holding. Shrug.

 

[Tetsubo]

I've been gaming since 1978 and have never seen a PC have more than 5-10 magic arrows at any one time. Now that item creation rules exist and make some sense that might be different though.

 

[KarinsDad]

I've been gaming since 1978 and have never seen a PC have more than 5-10 magic arrows at any one time.

That's when I started as well and my experience is similar to yours. Currently, one of our archers has something like 20 or 25 magic arrows, but he has been saving up. And with two archers in the group, they tend to share what they find.

Now that item creation rules exist and make some sense that might be different though.

The increases due to magic item creation in 3E tend to get offset by the fact that you can also get more shots off per round. I think it is mostly a wash for the most part.

 

[kreynolds]

I've been gaming since 1978 and have never seen a PC have more than 5-10 magic arrows at any one time. Now that item creation rules exist and make some sense that might be different though.

There's a ranger in a game I run that has to have fired off at least 1,000 arrows over his gaming career. I can count how many of them were magical on just two hands.

 

[Darkness]

Regarding magic arrows:

Get yourself 50 arrows and have your friendly cleric (or wizard or sorcerer or bard or paladin) buddy cast greater magic weapon (or, at lower levels, magic weapon), on them. Presto - instant magic arrows! You don't even have to add water or stir or anything...

And an elf or half-elf with the Arcane Archer prestige class won't run into this problem too often. So it's usually limited to human (or half-orc) archers (and those elven/half-elven archers with different prestige classes) anyway.

Heh. I really don't see what the big deal is.