D&D 5E Magic Missile. Better as a cantrip?

[cbwjm]

See the updated version here.

So, I'm thinking that magic missile, being one of those iconic wizard spells, might be better as a cantrip, something like the following:

Magic Missile (sorcerer, wizard)
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You create two glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
The spell creates an additional missile at higher levels: 5th level (3 missiles), 11th level (4 missiles), and 17th level (5 missiles).

I started with two missiles so that it finishes on 5 total missiles at level 17 as a kind of homage to 2e where it had a maximum of 5 missiles at level 9. It means it starts with less missiles than the current first level spell, but gains surpasses the 1st level version at level 11. And let's face it, no one ever really boosts magic missile to higher levels anyway (maybe, I don't know I'm just saying this). Powerwise, it doesn't seem to be overpowered.
Pros: It hits automatically, it has multiple targets, it has a good average damage in the early levels.
Cons: lower maximum damage compared with other cantrips from level 5, average damage starts to fall off at higher levels.

So what do others think? Should it never be a cantrip? Is being a cantrip okay? Are there other spells that you think could be made into cantrips? Why didn't the wizard's Scorching Burst from 4e make the cut and become a cantrip or spell in 5e? Was it even called Scorching Burst or am I thinking of something completely different?

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

This would be by far the best combat cantrip in the game. When you take hit chance into consideration it's comparable to Eldritch Blast boosted by Agonizing Blast and maximized Charisma.

Make it one dart instead of two at level 1 and increasing from there and you might have a reasonable cantrip.

 

[marcelvdpol]

I actually think Magic Missile is a good spell. Next to its iconic nature, the automatic hits and the multiple targets are excellent at taking out multiple Goblins, Kobolts etc if they are spaced too far apart for something like Thunderwave.

Next to that the Force damage is rarely resisted. Be careful when targeting casters as the Shield spell can be use to block it.

I remember facing the Lord of Murder in Baldurs Gate with lots of Magic missiles (both prepared as well as in the shape of wands) while using Summon Monater spells to keep Bhaal busy to give me time to cast Magic Missile.

 

[MechaPilot]

@OP: Your version starts out doing double the average damage of a 1d8 cantrip that normally requires an attack roll.

Your magic missile does 2d4+2 damage and always hits = 2*(2.5+1) = 7 damage per use.

If we assume the average PC misses 30% of the time and crits on a natural 20, a 1d8 damage cantrip works out to an average of 3.375 damage per use. Even a 1d12 cantrip works out to only 4.875 average damage per use.

 

[Yunru]

I ported over 4e's Magic Missile. That is to say each beam deals Int mod damage, starting at 1 beam and gaining an additional beam at 5th, 11th, and 17th.
Even then I consider it a little powerful, given 3 damage no attack roll is still comparable to a 1d10 firebolt.

 

[Caliban]

And let's face it, no one ever really boosts magic missile to higher levels anyway (maybe, I don't know I'm just saying this). Powerwise, it doesn't seem to be overpowered.

I frequently see casters using higher level slots for Magic Missile - almost guaranteed damage against something with a high AC or good saves is a no-brainer when you want to finish something off. Especially if the caster is a lvl 10+ Evoker wizard and gets to add their Int as damage to every missile. (One of the odder official rulings, but it does make the iconic spell very useful at higher levels.).

I don't particularly see the need to make it a cantrip, it wasn't a cantrip in earlier editions. If you do make it a cantrip, I think you need to remove the auto-hit nature because no other cantrip is guaranteed damage (other than Shield, nothing stops it).

 

[Valetudo]

It was an atwill in 4th edition that used an attack roll at first. They then changed it in essentials back to a autohit. First they got alot of backlash from 4e haters from having an attack roll. Then they got alot of backlash from 4e players from actually making a change in the CB that made the phb wrong. Thats when I dropped paying for the CB because it wiped away the option to play core 4e using it. Its also one of the changes I feel that killed 4e, because essential didnt bring players back like it whas supposed to, it split the brand.

 

[Sunseeker]

How about tie the number of targets it can hit to "upgrade" of the spell? At 0 upgrades it can hit one target. At 5th it hits 2 targets, at 11th it hits 3 targets, etc...

I agree with the math about it's starter damage, it's too high. I'd say tie the last missile (and the bonus target, bringing both to 5) to the last level. Nobody's going to complain about 5d4+5 cantrip damage at 17th.

 

[ad_hoc]

No cantrip should deal automatic damage.

Magic Missile is a good versatile damage spell. You can force concentration saves and hit long range targets with it.

I think it is fine as is.

 

[MechaPilot]

No cantrip should deal automatic damage.

Magic Missile is a good versatile damage spell. You can force concentration saves and hit long range targets with it.

I think it is fine as is.

I wouldn't have a problem with an automatic damage cantrip. It's just that the damage would need to be adjusted down to fit the weighted average damage of other cantrips.

For example, a 1d8 cantrip does an average of 3.375 damage per use. A 1d4+1 automatic hit cantrip would be 3.5 average damage per use. That's equivalent enough that I wouldn't have a problem with allowing it.

 

[cbwjm]

This would be by far the best combat cantrip in the game. When you take hit chance into consideration it's comparable to Eldritch Blast boosted by Agonizing Blast and maximized Charisma.

Make it one dart instead of two at level 1 and increasing from there and you might have a reasonable cantrip.

I think you're right, I did originally have it at one but really wanted it to end up with 5 missiles so started it off with two. I'll knock it down to 1 at start which will mean it will follow the a similar progression of power as the other cantrips.

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[Ganymede81]

One, this is simply way too good as a cantrip.

Two, you don't get to call something balanced by saying "it's awesome at low level but sucky at high level, so it is balanced on average!"

 

[MechaPilot]

One, this is simply way too good as a cantrip.

Two, you don't get to call something balanced by saying "it's awesome at low level but sucky at high level, so it is balanced on average!"

Sure you do. That's how they balanced the fighter in AD&D 2e. And that's, in reverse, how they balanced the wizard in AD&D 2e.

 

[bid]

Compare to acid splash and EB:
- EB: 1d10 * .55 = 3.025 (Int16 vs AC13)
- EB+agonizing: 1d10+3 * .55 = 4.675 (Int16 vs AC13)
- acid splash: 2d6 * .5 = 3.5 DPR (DC 13 vs Dex14)
- magic missile (2): 2d4+2 = 7 DPR
- magic missile (1): 1d4+1 = 3.5 DPR

It's ridiculously powerful because it always hits.


If they did 1d4 and must each have a different target, maybe that'd be balanced enough.

 

[MechaPilot]

Compare to acid splash and EB:
- EB: 1d10 * .55 = 3.025 (Int16 vs AC13)
- EB+agonizing: 1d10+3 * .55 = 4.675 (Int16 vs AC13)
- acid splash: 2d6 * .5 = 3.5 DPR (DC 13 vs Dex14)
- magic missile (2): 2d4+2 = 7 DPR
- magic missile (1): 1d4+1 = 3.5 DPR

It's ridiculously powerful because it always hits.


If they did 1d4 and must each have a different target, maybe that'd be balanced enough.

If the OP's cantrip range was cut down and the separate targets had to be close to each other, I'd agree with an acid splash like variant.

 

[cbwjm]

I frequently see casters using higher level slots for Magic Missile - almost guaranteed damage against something with a high AC or good saves is a no-brainer when you want to finish something off. Especially if the caster is a lvl 10+ Evoker wizard and gets to add their Int as damage to every missile. (One of the odder official rulings, but it does make the iconic spell very useful at higher levels.).

I don't particularly see the need to make it a cantrip, it wasn't a cantrip in earlier editions. If you do make it a cantrip, I think you need to remove the auto-hit nature because no other cantrip is guaranteed damage (other than Shield, nothing stops it).

It's not really about need, we have plenty of cantrips already, it's more about a preference, a want. I think it would be good as as cantrip.

As for the evoker. The same guy at wizards has said that rolling for each missile is fine (pretty sure it was the same guy, there are tweets somewhere), so it really depends on the table. We roll for each missile so the evoker bonus will only apply once. If you run with the other method then you may not want it available as a cantrip if people tend to roll evokers.



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[Ganymede81]

Sure you do. That's how they balanced the fighter in AD&D 2e. And that's, in reverse, how they balanced the wizard in AD&D 2e.

Ahh... those were the days.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Observation: Evokers' 6th level ability ("Potent Cantrip") turns Acid Splash, Poison Spray, Frost Bite, Thunderclap, and Sword Burst into automatic damage.

To the OP: It's an interesting idea. Personally I'd rather keep Magic Missile as a spell to avoid cheapening it. As Caliban said, it's awesome for Evokers.

 

[Remathilis]

Overpowered. The fact the PC can score a guaranteed 4-10 points of damage per round without worrying about attack rolls or saves makes it far superior to every cantrip out there. Even if its damage grows slower over the levels, the fact it cannot be avoided, legendary saved against, or even resisted (few creatures have damage resistance/immunity to force) means its guaranteed damage for no resource. It blows every cantrip out of the water, and that's before Empowered Evocation or a Sorcerer metamagic.

Either drop the number of missiles to 1, reduce the damage to 1-2 points per missile, or dump the auto hit and make it an attack roll.

 

[cbwjm]

After some feedback, I now have an updated version of the magic missile cantrip. Original post below for easy comparison. Basically though, I've dropped the initial number of missiles down to one and updated the wording to be similar to eldritch blast since I like to try to keep wording consistent with other 5e spells.

Magic Missile (sorcerer, wizard)
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You create a glowing dart of magical force which hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. The dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to its target.
The spell creates an additional missile when you reach higher levels: two missiles at 5th level, three missiles at 11th level, and four missiles at 17th level. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.

So, I'm thinking that magic missile, being one of those iconic wizard spells, might be better as a cantrip, something like the following:

Magic Missile (sorcerer, wizard)
Evocation cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Instantaneous
You create two glowing darts of magical force. Each dart hits a creature of your choice that you can see within range. A dart deals 1d4+1 force damage to its target. The darts all strike simultaneously, and you can direct them to hit one creature or several.
The spell creates an additional missile at higher levels: 5th level (3 missiles), 11th level (4 missiles), and 17th level (5 missiles).

I started with two missiles so that it finishes on 5 total missiles at level 17 as a kind of homage to 2e where it had a maximum of 5 missiles at level 9. It means it starts with less missiles than the current first level spell, but gains surpasses the 1st level version at level 11. And let's face it, no one ever really boosts magic missile to higher levels anyway (maybe, I don't know I'm just saying this). Powerwise, it doesn't seem to be overpowered.
Pros: It hits automatically, it has multiple targets, it has a good average damage in the early levels.
Cons: lower maximum damage compared with other cantrips from level 5, average damage starts to fall off at higher levels.

So what do others think? Should it never be a cantrip? Is being a cantrip okay? Are there other spells that you think could be made into cantrips? Why didn't the wizard's Scorching Burst from 4e make the cut and become a cantrip or spell in 5e? Was it even called Scorching Burst or am I thinking of something completely different?