Marking and AoE

[MindWanderer]

I think it all comes down to target. Cleave does not target the enemies hit with the secondary attack so it incurs the mark penalty even if the marker would be hit by the secondary effect. The two eye beams are on attack with 2 targets. As long as one of the targets is the marker then no penalty.

I agree with this--the fact that a secondary creature might take damage doesn't mean that it's included in the attack.

Similarly, if you use Force Orb on an unmarking creature adjacent to the marking one, I would rule that the primary attack suffers the penalty, but the secondary attack (should the primary hit) does not. But by the same logic, if you're marked by a paladin, and use Force Orb on a cluster of enemies that doesn't include the paladin, you take the radiant damage twice--once for the primary and once for the secondary attack. Nemmind, I missed the 1/turn language on Divine Challenge.

 

[Oldtimer]

I agree with this--the fact that a secondary creature might take damage doesn't mean that it's included in the attack.

Similarly, if you use Force Orb on an unmarking creature adjacent to the marking one, I would rule that the primary attack suffers the penalty, but the secondary attack (should the primary hit) does not.

This I agree with (I used Passing Attack for a similar example above).

However, Cleave does not give you a secondary attack. It damages two targets. How can the secondary creature not be included in the attack if it's damaged by it?

 

[MindWanderer]

Because you're not attacking the adjacent creature. It's just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I guess my logic is that if you're not making an attack roll, it isn't an attack. Cleave may damage two targets, but you're only attacking one of them. Heck, the second victim doesn't even have to be in range of your weapon.

 

[Oldtimer]

Heck, the second victim doesn't even have to be in range of your weapon.

Considering he has to be adjacent to you, I belive he would be in range most of the time.

 

[MindWanderer]

Considering he has to be adjacent to you, I belive he would be in range most of the time.

Ah, they changed it from DDXP. It was "adjacent to the target," not "to you."