D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Pedantic]

bUt THosE aREn'T maGIc!!

Literally you've gotten the position exactly backwards.

The argument is that those are all magic.

 

[Hussar]

Again, can we not just take it as read that there will be some sort of narrative justification and move on?

Or have we finally found something we can keep harping on endlessly until conversation gets shut down?

 

[Gammadoodler]

The narrative justification currently in the book is perfectly adequate for the admission of superhuman abilities into the classes we are talking about.

Hell, as part of creating the fighter you are supposed to think about "what sets you apart from the mundane warriors around you".

 

[Pedantic]

Again, can we not just take it as read that there will be some sort of narrative justification and move on?

To what? If you tell me rogues learn to shape shadows, I can stay coming up with powers. If you tell me they become master mesmerists, I'll come up with different powers, if you tell me they master balance and grace until they dance up walls or learn the real thieves cant that charms locks and hearts alike, there's different abilities. The next step is a product of the archetype.

 

[Emberashh]

Why do the yawps of my Barbarian manage to disrupt spells and shatter the puny armor and weapons of those unfamiliar with enchantment?

Because I said so.

Why do I say so?

Because shut up.

Im still not certain theres anyone in this topic that actually cares one way or another. We're all talking about the perceptions of people that aren't here.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You're mixing up two different things here. There's any number of reasonably scaling martial archetypes that provide sufficient utility, literally hundreds of options. It isn't important what justification you provide for superhuman ability, but it's vitally important you pick one.

You can do some of that in the subclass, but most of it has to come in the main body if you want everybody to have the effects you need.

You just have to actually pick one and use it. It's not sufficient to say "any of those work." If you're going with "runs on legend" then you provide a series of effects based on maintaining extraordinary tales. If you do channeling ancient beast spirits or the secret souls of swords, you do different stuff. Literally any of those narratives works, the problem is that the core idea of "Fighter" can't stand on its own, because it isn't any of those things, so tell me what archetype you're doing and we can puzzle out reasonable effects that get you up to flight and existing in places made entirely of fire and so on.

It's a much harder route to try and redefine Fighter itself into something usable, and probably starts with a setting wide metaphysics that universalizes how PCs acquire power.

First of all, we did pick them. I wrote an entire entry. I believe someone else did the same.

Secondly, pick a single definitive example of a sorcerer's power source.

Do they have a magical bloodline? Were they blessed by a powerful being? Cursed by a powerful being? Were they born in extraordinary circumstances? Did they come into contact with a powerful artifact or force that altered them?

The answer? All of them. The PHB sorcerer entry gives multiple explanations. So... why is that good enough for the sorcerer... but not good enough for this martial rewrite?

 

[Chaosmancer]

This whole sideshow about physics is frustrating, and circular. We don't need to figure out some underlying rules of fantasy reality here, just acknowledge that superhuman abilities require superhuman justifications, and that the whole way we navigate fantasy as a genre is to drag in our flawed sense of "normality" and then go looking for exceptions.

If the Fighter's (or Rogue's) shtick is being normal, then they're screwed out of all the effects we need them to have.

They aren't normal. We've established this.

 

[Yaarel]

Elan
Anima
Vivre
Ego
Pneuma
Zest
Vitality
Fervor
Esprit
Vim
(all) Spark
Pzazz
Verve
Potency
Edge
Drive

so many terms without resorting to qi or mana or magic

Anima and Pneuma relate to the soul, and sometimes in a magical context.

Vitality is sometimes used in the sense of lifeforce and ki.

Most of the terms relate to various aspects of the soul, including Ego, Fervor, and so on.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Literally you've gotten the position exactly backwards.

The argument is that those are all magic.

No, the argument is if you don't use the word "magic" somewhere..

You don't get to do anything beyond earth-standard.

Unparalleled mastery
..nope try again
Thorough knowledge of skills of combat
..pftt
Well acquainted with death, meting it out and staring it defiantly in the face
..yawn.
Superior combatant
..nahhh.
Raw physical power honed to deadly perfection
..still haven't said the magic worrrrd

I'd love for 'elan' to be the one word that does the trick, but this seems unlikely.

 

[Incenjucar]

Souls exist in D&D and are not eradicated in anti-magic fields. When creating a mythic fighter, add the line "with mighty souls" and move on.