Masterwork Armour ?

[Felon]

Not supposed to be a revision, not in the 3.5E sense at least.

Just fix things in upcoming printings, issue online errata (for free) and summarize the changes in the PHB4 (or PHB17 or whatever).

The powers behind the 3.5 revision just thought they were "fixing things". And they caught hell for it. So, how do you do it right?

 

[Felon]

I'm not getting your math: 11th level Plate is a +8 Armor bonus, 11th level Hide is +3 Armor. Both get a +3 Enhancement Bonus. Hide gets to add in up to +6 Dex or Int. That's +11 AC for Plate, and between +6 and +12 for Hide, by my math.

11th-level MW plate (whatever it's called) will offer a base AC of +10, then tack on the +3 enhancement bonus.

11th-level MW hide is still +3 AC with a +3 enhancement bonus (although it offers a +1 Fort bonus IIRC).

 

[Felon]

There are other initial design solutions which were better (course, too late now).


Like not increasing ability scores by 8 or 10 in 27 levels. The ability score bonuses screwed up all of the defenses and required special rules.

They screwed up Light AC, forcing masterwork in Heavy to keep pace (which btw, it doesn't anyway, Light AC outpace Heavy AC by 1).

They screwed up 1 out of 3 NADs since at most 2 NAD ability scores can be increased each level.

The NAD issue is actually why I stopped caring about MW armor one way or the other. Last night 10th-level characters fought some drowned ghosts (11th-level artillery). I used a bard power that changed its attack roll to a 3. It still hit the ranger. Would have hit on a 2.

Will picking up these mandatory feats even help?

 

[CapnZapp]

The powers behind the 3.5 revision just thought they were "fixing things". And they caught hell for it. So, how do you do it right?

By not changing a thousand little things and claiming its still "compatible".

In this case, by not taking the "opportunity" to change anything else. The only change should be the math fix.

But as this is never going to happen I might as well answer "by hiring me as lead"

 

[Belphanior]

The NAD issue is actually why I stopped caring about MW armor one way or the other. Last night 10th-level characters fought some drowned ghosts (11th-level artillery). I used a bard power that changed its attack roll to a 3. It still hit the ranger. Would have hit on a 2.

Will picking up these mandatory feats even help?

Wow. The drowining ghosts are highly accurate, yes. They have +16 against every NAD, compared to the banshrae dartswarmer (also lvl 11 artillery) which has +16 against AC. So in that respect the ghosts are more or less costum made to hit anybody, making it no surprise they could hit the ranger.

But still, at 10th level the ranger has +5 from level and most likely a +3 amulet of some sort. Were his ability scores so crap that he didn't even have another +2 or something?

 

[KarinsDad]

The NAD issue is actually why I stopped caring about MW armor one way or the other. Last night 10th-level characters fought some drowned ghosts (11th-level artillery). I used a bard power that changed its attack roll to a 3. It still hit the ranger. Would have hit on a 2.

Will picking up these mandatory feats even help?

Well, although masterwork armor in AV adds to some types of NADs, I wouldn't rely on it for protection.

In my house rules, I've done:

1) PHB II Heavy Armor masterwork rules (without NAD mods).
2) PHB Light Armor masterwork rules.
3) +1 to hit and all NADs at levels 5, 15, and 25.
4) 3 ability score increases at level 4, 8, etc. instead of 2.
5) Remove expertise and PHB II NAD feats.

What this does is:

1) Keeps strongest NAD and weakest NAD at the same delta (assuming the PC puts the 3 ability score increases into ones that affect all 3 NADs).

2) Typically adds +27 to AC and +28 to NADs in 29 levels (monsters average +29). Example: Light Armor AC = +15 half level, +6 magic, +4 ability scores, +2 masterwork. Heavy Armor AC = +15 half level, +6 magic, +6 masterwork. NAD = +15 half level, +6 magic, +3 5/15/25, +4 ability scores.

Note: Light Armor could become +28 with an Epic stat boost. Hide and Heavy Hide Specialization can increase by 1 with Specialization. NADs can increase by 2 with Paragon feat.


The weakest NAD is still the weakest NAD, it just is not 4 or 5 more lower at level 30 compared to the strongest NAD than it was at level one (e.g. 4 lower at level one and 8 lower at level 30).


The reason I am using these house rules instead of just lowering the difficulty of encounters (which is a lot simpler) is because I want the PCs to fight Tiamat when they get to level 30.

 

[Felon]

Wow. The drowining ghosts are highly accurate, yes. They have +16 against every NAD, compared to the banshrae dartswarmer (also lvl 11 artillery) which has +16 against AC. So in that respect the ghosts are more or less costum made to hit anybody, making it no surprise they could hit the ranger.

But still, at 10th level the ranger has +5 from level and most likely a +3 amulet of some sort. Were his ability scores so crap that he didn't even have another +2 or something?

I don't have the ranger's stats before me, but the character's were created at 9th, so no +3 neck slot items were available during pregen, and they haven't dropped yet and we don't have the cash to buy them.

He's a two-weapon ranger, so his Dex isn't that good (he's actually feated up to plate mail). Probably only +1 due to the 16, 14, 13, 12, 10 array we're using (he's a goliath). So his Ref Def is 18. Kinda lousy, but I'm a smart bard and I only have a 20.

The bonus doesn't seem that out-of-whack with what I've seen so far. The foulspawn seer was dazing people left and right with a +15 to hit, for instance. IIRC, a monster's attack bonus versus a NAD defense is only 2 less than its attack bonus versus AC. Obviously, a typical character is amazingly unlikely to have more than 1 NAD that's within 2 of his AC.

 

[kaomera]

11th-level MW plate (whatever it's called) will offer a base AC of +10, then tack on the +3 enhancement bonus.

11th-level MW hide is still +3 AC with a +3 enhancement bonus (although it offers a +1 Fort bonus IIRC).

Ah, took me a moment in the compendium, but I figured out where I screwed up: wasn't looking at AV (since I don't own it...). And yeah, Earthhide is +1 Fort.

 

[Elric]

The bonus doesn't seem that out-of-whack with what I've seen so far. The foulspawn seer was dazing people left and right with a +15 to hit, for instance. IIRC, a monster's attack bonus versus a NAD defense is only 2 less than its attack bonus versus AC. Obviously, a typical character is amazingly unlikely to have more than 1 NAD that's within 2 of his AC.

Right. Even at level 1, a typical character (when I looked at the WotC pre-gens) has AC about 3.5 higher than average FRW. Then FRW scale significantly worse than AC over time with the base level/attribute/enhancement bonuses.

 

[CapnZapp]

When it comes to attack bonuses, granting +1/+2/+3 and removing Expertise is easy.

As for AC, I'm keeping the masterwork bonuses, but giving them automatically to all suits of armor of a high enough level. (That is, dropping the specific masterwork materials; just keeping the AC bonuses).

When it comes to NADs, I'm adding the same +1/+2/+3 as for to hit. I'm seriously considering doing this without removing any NAD buffing feats at all; simply because it appears it is almost impossible to get a full set of three decent NADs anyhow. Because everyone gets a +3 to all three NADs at Epic, I'm hoping the need to take those NAD buffing feats won't feel as pressing.