Maths errors in RPGs

[Sir Elton]

Add me to the "I don't care" group.

It's the job of the GM (and, by extension, the publisher who provides the material the GM uses) to provide encounters that are appropriately challenging and balanced. That means getting the EL right.

Very, very few stat block errors have the potential for changing the CR of a character or creature. So long as the creature really is as challenging as the CR indicates, it's fine, and the small "errors" in the block don't matter. As far as I'm concerned, most stat block numbers only really need to be within about 10% of the rules to be just fine.

I really wish publishers (I'm lookin' at you, WotC!) would adopt this stance officially. Then there'd be no errors--only cases of creatures which weren't built to the exacting specifications as characters.

Challenge Rating is grossly unsteady.

Elton.

 

[DaveyJones]

Challenge Rating is grossly unsteady.

Elton.

qfmft

 

[RFisher]

And why isn't there some amazing tool that can help with this?

Isn't that because WotC brilliantly predicated funding development of useful software on the sales of a product that was underfeatured & overpriced?

 

[DaveyJones]

Isn't that because WotC brilliantly predicated funding development of useful software on the sales of a product that was underfeatured & overpriced?

Masters Tools
which became?

 

[D'karr]

Masters Tools
which became?

VaporWare

 

[JoeGKushner]

Hero is pretty easy to check the statblocks because they show the work. They sometimes get it wrong.

I wish the M&M sheets were designed simliar manner so it'd be easier to check. I remember the 1st ed had a lot of the archetypes screw up in total points and had errata on the old website to correct it.

The lesson? Math, and more importantly, editing, is hard.

 

[sjmiller]

Yes, lots of games have had mathematical errors in them in the past. Traveller had them, especially in the miniatures rules Striker and in MegaTraveller. Villains and Vigilantes had a formula for carrying capacity that was different than the words in the description. And other games which escape me at the moment all have errors in math in them. I think it happens due to folks not knowing math as well as they think they do. That and seeing the same numbers over and over you just start to think they are right.

 

[Garnfellow]

I don't think there are many games that could serve as useful analogs to D&D -- either there isn't enough complexity, or the game design principles aren't explicitly stated, or there just isn't enough material available to do a side-by-side comparison.

GURPS might be the best system that one could compare to D&D in terms of complexity, rule opacity, and quantity. I've got a bunch of GURPS supplements, but I only use them for background material. By reputation, though, they are extremely well edited.

So for those gamers who know both systems well, how do the stat blocks for the two games stack up in terms of error rate?

I am much more familiar with Ars Magica, which is probably at least equal to D&D in complexity. And my impression is that Atlas does a much better job with far fewer resources.

For that matter, Paizo seems to do a much better job than WotC at stat blocks in D&D products. Hmmmmmm.

 

[sjmiller]

GURPS might be the one system that one could compare to D&D in terms of complexity, opacity, and quantity. I've got a bunch of GURPS supplements, but I only use them for background material. By reputation, though, they are extremely well edited.

GURPS is pretty well edited and playtested, but errors do occur. The nice thing is that Steve Jackson Games posts errata for every book they have ever published on their website, and you can ask them to mail you errata sheets if you do not have web access. When they do a new printing of a book they tend to fix the errors that are known at that time. Good folks to deal with all around.

 

[Garnfellow]

GURPS is pretty well edited and playtested, but errors do occur.

I don't think there has ever been a "perfect" game book, nor do I think we will ever see one. And I don't think that perfection should be the expectation.

But that said, I do think WotC falls far short of the mark when it comes to stat blocks. If I were just using monsters straight out of the book, this probably wouldn't bother me.

But as someone who loves to tinker with, advance, and build new completely new monsters, stat block errors DO bug me. A lot, especially when there are plenty of other companies out there that are able to do a demonstrably better job than the largest RPG company.