Maximize Spell + Enpower Spell

[stevelabny]

Just want to verify this is accurate.

Ray of enfeeblement normally:
1d6 + 1 /2levels STR damage.

maximized and enpowered for a 10th level wizard is:

6 + 5 = 11 x 1 1/2 = 16 STR damage

and not: 6+3+5 = 14 damage

right?

and casting a quickened True Strike beforehand is a surefire way to cripple the party tank.

 

[Pyrex]

Nope, that's not how it works. Empower + Maximize is explicitly called out in the rules.

Essentially what you do is take Maximized result and add half the rolled result as the contribution from Empower

For RoE it works out as follows.

Maximize (1d6 + 5) = 11
Empower (1d6+5)x0.5 = ~4

Total = ~15pts

 

[Someone]

Wrong. Is 6+5=11. Then roll 1d6, add 5, divide by two rounding down and add to 11.

But yes, using 5th and 6th level spells are good ways to cripple a party´s tank, and everything else, I should add.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Yeah, it comes out pretty close to the same because you're relying on the constant term for so much of the effect at that level, but Pyrex is quite correct.

 

[Thikket]

Incorrect, actually. Edit: Whoopsie! I knew I miscalculated! All fixed.

3.5e PHB page 98. "An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result." There's also an example on that page.

Your empowered maximized ray of enfeeblement is a 6th level spell, so it can't be cast by a 10th level wizard; but that doesn't matter for the actual purpose at hand, just a side note (you'd need to be 11th level).

Ray of enfeeblement does not deal strength damage, careful with that. It's just a strength penalty.

The actual damage of this scenario would be, I believe:

6+5 (maximized amount) + (1d6+5)*0.5 = 11 + (1d6+5)*0.5

This results in the uniform probability distribution:
-14 penalty (1/6 chance)
-14 penalty (1/6 chance)
-15 penalty (1/6 chance)
-15 penalty (1/6 chance)
-16 penalty (1/6 chance)
-16 penalty (1/6 chance)

Remember that the subject's strength cannot drop below 1 with the use of this spell (see other, similar threads for more information).

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's correct. I may have miscalculated the penalty by counting the "+5" part twice -- if that's incorrect, someone pipe up. It seems about right for a 6th level spell, considering you need two feats for it (compare with feeblemind, 5th level).

Still pretty danged nasty, though, huh?

(Also note: a simple empowered ray of enfeeblement at that level does that same progression without the "11" part added by the maximize spell feat. It's still really good [the worst you can do is a -9 penalty!], and only a 3rd level spell. Consider that too.)

Hope that was helpful!
Lurking Thikket

 

[Gunslinger]

Thats a real waste of a 6th level spell.

If you're trying to take out a tank (who likely a bad will save) why not just hit him with Dominate Person (5th level)? Now you can have him attack his own party at full strength.

Or if you're worried he'll make the save just hit him with a Geas (6th level). It allows no save and he won't be bothering you again for quite some time.

 

[stevelabny]

thanks all for fixing the math.
yes i was aware of the other stuff(str penalty not damage, and that i would actually need an 11th level caster for the example)

and as for "better ways"
i'm sure there are plenty.
but this one seems like FUN.

its not the save that kills Dominate, its the Magic Circle Against Evil on the party Cleric that cancels out Dominate as soon as the cleric gets within 10 feet.

and as for Geas...well what fun is it if the tank just ups and walks out. at least if you find a way to severely hamper him, he can still regroup or fight on or whatever. with geas he just walks out on the party. this is still a game.

 

[Scion]

I like wave of exhaustion and fatigue myself Get a group of people, they cant charge, penalty to str and dex, and casting fatigue twice makes them exhausted anyway which really sucks for them.

 

[mmu1]

Thats a real waste of a 6th level spell.

If you're trying to take out a tank (who likely a bad will save) why not just hit him with Dominate Person (5th level)? Now you can have him attack his own party at full strength.

Or if you're worried he'll make the save just hit him with a Geas (6th level). It allows no save and he won't be bothering you again for quite some time.

Funny thing about Geas - it has a 10 minute casting time...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Funny thing about Geas - it has a 10 minute casting time...

It was one action in 3E, so some people don't notice it's changed.

But anyway, that's what infusions are for

-Hyp.