Meaning of 'Listed Price'

[ElectricDragon]

Why would you subtract the masterwork cost from the cost of mithral when it explicitly states that masterwork costs are included in the 4,000 gp and mithral armor is always masterwork? Why include a masterwork cost in the total that needs to be subtracted to get the real cost?

Ciao
Dave

 

[mvincent]

Why would you subtract the masterwork cost from the cost of mithral when it explicitly states that masterwork costs are included in the 4,000 gp and mithral armor is always masterwork?

I believe because masterwork cost are explicitly not multiplied by size, but special material costs are. I agree that this seems needlessly complex.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Elven Chain in the SRD has a price of 4,150 gp. 4,000 gp for the mithral (including masterwork) and 150 gp for the suit of armor. Using the FAQ statement, this armor should only cost 4,000 gp. 4,000 gp for mithral, minus 150 for masterwork plus 150 for chainmail.

I do not think masterwork costs should be multiplied; but the example removes the total cost of masterwork (if any should be removed at all, it should be x3 or 450 gp not the total 600 gp). This would make the cost of Large Mithral chainmail barding 16,150 gp. Personally, I would just multiply the 4,000 by 4 add the chainmail cost (x4) and have done with it; but I tend to simplify all math involved with my game.

Ciao
Dave

 

[mvincent]

the example removes the total cost of masterwork (if any should be removed at all, it should be x3 or 450 gp not the total 600 gp).

Yup. Good catch. It appears that the Sage was off by 150 gp because he forgot to add the MW cost back in. Care to write to him to correct it? (if not, I'll probably do it once I collect a few more errors)

Personally, I would just multiply the 4,000 by 4 add the chainmail cost (x4) and have done with it

Ditto

 

[Moon-Lancer]

well i think the faq is wrong, becuse of the dagger greatsword argument. on an off note, if someone was to craft adamantine, what would the base price of the meterial be? Im thinking half, becuse most craft prices are halved, for mundain weapons and magic iteams.

 

[mvincent]

well i think the faq is wrong

Do you believe there is ambiguity in the issue?
Do you believe the FAQ was intended to alleviate such ambiguity?
Do you believe that if it ruled exactly as you see it, there would still be people disputing the ruling?

On matters subject to interpretation, the FAQ is just one person's interpretation. But that one person is the official person (not you). You can still rule as you like in your own game (and indeed alter any of the core rules as well), but determining the official conclusion has importance in a global forum like this.

if someone was to craft adamantine, what would the base price of the meterial be?

Two different sources list it as 100 gp per pound (for shot), but it cannot be determined if shot is solid adamantine (probably not).

Im thinking half, becuse most craft prices are halved, for mundain weapons and magic iteams.

For crafting mundane items, the material costs are actually 1/3 the final value.

 

[mvincent]

well i think the faq is wrong, becuse of the dagger greatsword argument.

Pardon the pun, but that argument cuts both ways. Alchemical silver costs:
Light weapon +20 gp
One-handed weapon +90 gp
Two-handed weapon +180 gp
If material costs did not increment with size, a person could purchase a huge silver dagger for +20 gp and use it similarly to a greatsword (i.e. using it two-handedly, but saving 160 gp)

Similarly, mithral is typically priced by weight, but also gives prices by armor type. Would it makes sense that a mithral suit of armor built for a colossal creature has the same price increase from mithral as a small suit of armor?

Since most of the other materials are priced according to weight (and silver by size), it would seem that adamantine’s pricing is atypical, and one would still expect a suit of colossal platemail to be prohibitedly expensive (else clever PC's commission them cheaply and use them as fortresses)

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Well I’m one to think that power or position doesn’t make right (through my experiences. Absolute power corrupts absolutely yada yada yada). The argument that a larger sized version would cost more is a sound argument, except a dagger and a great sword are of two different sizes and they do not change the price that is the argument.

Do you believe there is ambiguity in the issue?
-Yes, if you read my post, you would realize that their is ambiguity in the issue of the dagger and great sword… I wonder why you asked this when I answered this in the post before yours. Maybe I don’t understand what your asking?
Do you believe the FAQ was intended to alleviate such ambiguity?
-yes, but instead made situation more ambiguous....ly gay hahah.. sorry, I love Stewart Sméagol-TV fun house(no not lotr)
Do you believe that if it ruled exactly as you see it, there would still be people disputing the ruling?
-Yes, but I am entitled to an opinion. I think if the crafting rules were more precise and dealt with alternative materials, then we could see the inner workings of how the prices were executed, rather then just accepting it as balanced prices. I think the dagger sword argument already shows that the price would not go up by the rules, even though it does not make perfect sense (see crafting problem)

Two different sources list it as 100 gp per pound (for shot), but it cannot be determined if shot is solid adamantine (probably not).


thanks. Do you happen to know the sources? (im not doubting you, but if i wanted to show someone else, it helps.)


ah have to look at the mundain crafting rules again. That would be even better for a price (cuz i like my god weapons cheap ).

Pardon the pun, but that argument cuts both ways. Alchemical silver costs:
Light weapon of med size +20 gp
One-handed weapon of med size +90 gp
Two-handed weapon of med size +180 gp
If material costs did not increment with size, a person could purchase a huge silver dagger for +20 gp and use it similarly to a greatsword (i.e. using it two-handedly, but saving 160 gp)

Similarly, mithral is typically priced by weight, but also gives prices by armor type. Would it makes sense that a mithral suit of armor built for a colossal creature has the same price increase from mithral as a small suit of armor?

if i was to swing to the larger weapons coast more with special meterials, i would add a perviso that i italisized (lol i quated it so its all italisized, oh well.)

But look how cheap it is, and how expesive adamantine is. I think most of the price is carftsmenthsip

Since most of the other materials are priced according to weight (and silver by size), it would seem that adamantine’s pricing is atypical, and one would still expect a suit of colossal platemail to be prohibitedly expensive (else clever PC's commission them cheaply and use them as fortresses)

This would be a problem with mythril and adamantine perhaps and maybe it would need to be rewriten.

 

[mvincent]

Well I’m one to think that power or position doesn’t make right

It does if it is within their ability/responsibility to provide official rules clarifications. It is akin to the judgement calls made by the original writer's of the rules. Unless they actually contradict something, railing against the core rules would be silly.

thanks. Do you happen to know the sources?

Draconomicon (page 278) and Heroes of Battle