Medium PC Two-Weapon Fighting with Medium Two-Handed Weapons

[Barendd Nobeard]

Is it even possible for a Medium PC to Two-Weapon Fight with Two-Handed Weapons in both hands? Is it possible with a two-handed weapon in primary hand and a light weapon in the off hand?

If so, what are the penalties? I could not find a clear explanation in the SRD (3.5) that even allows a medium PC to wield a two-handed weapon on one hand. This is for a medium PC wielding medium two-handed weapons. So, the size rules (-2 per category difference) don't apply.

How does Monkey Grip affect this set-up?

Basically, I want to know (1) if it's even possible, and then (2) how to minimize penalties. Obviously, Two-Weapon Fighting will help, but Monkey Grip may help even more.


TIA

 

[punkorange]

IIRC, the monkey grip feat would be required to wield the two-handed weapon one handed.

So with monkey grip and two weapon fighting, the attack penalties are -4/-4.

Don't quote me though, I don't remember the exact working of monkey grip.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Thanks. I'll look it up when I get home to double check.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I could not find a clear explanation in the SRD (3.5) that even allows a medium PC to wield a two-handed weapon on one hand.

He can't, unless it's a lance, and he's mounted.

How does Monkey Grip affect this set-up?

It doesn't. Monkey Grip has no effect on weapons of your size category - a Medium creature with a Medium greatsword, for example. It only affects weapons one size larger than you. So a Medium creature could wield a Large longsword as a one-handed weapon, or a Large greatsword as a two-handed weapon, with the feat... but not a Medium greatsword as a one-handed weapon.

It also can't be used with an off-hand weapon.

If you do wield a two-handed weapon while fighting with two weapons (which means either you have more than two hands, or you're using a lance while mounted), the only thing that affects your TWF penalties is "Is your off-hand weapon light?" It doesn't matter what it is exactly, and it doesn't matter what your primary weapon is... it's either a light off-hand weapon, or a not-light off-hand weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Thanks for the explanation, Hypersmurf.

 

[punkorange]

Thank you hypersmurf, I didn't mean to lead you in the wrong direction barndd

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I don't know if this applies to what you are looking for, but the Oversize 2-weapon fighting feat from Complete Adventurer allows you to wield a single-handed weapon in your off-hand and treat it as a light weapon.

 

[Seeten]

From a logical perspective, there is a chart (somewhere) that compares weapon sizes, and similarities(UA maybe?) and a Large Longsword basically is a Greatsword.

Monkey Grip is very poorly worded, or very illogical, I dont understand why I can use a weapon exactly the same size as a Greatsword in one hand, but not a greatsword. Basically, this is my gripe. A 6 foot bladed sword is a 6 foot bladed sword. A Great sword with a 6 foot blade and a longsword with a 6 foot blade will be virtually identical, weight and balance included, because the hands of a large creature are larger, thus still necessitating the same type of hilt. (2 hand sized)

If I were creating this character from scratch I'd probably take the weapon focus: Longsword feat, as Hypersmurf says, its what the rules present as possible, but as a DM, I'd allow a medium greatsword(or any medium 2h weapons outside of the 18+ foot long ones) to be used 1 handed with the feat. It isnt like the feat is wonderful, or overpowering.

The Oversized offhand weapon is another good choice, as stated earlier, in CAdv.

 

[kenobi65]

From a logical perspective, there is a chart (somewhere) that compares weapon sizes, and similarities(UA maybe?) and a Large Longsword basically is a Greatsword.

I believe it's in the DMG; if it's what I'm thinking of, it's optional rules that let you return to the 3.0 way weapon sizes are handled.

Monkey Grip is very poorly worded, or very illogical, I dont understand why I can use a weapon exactly the same size as a Greatsword in one hand, but not a greatsword. Basically, this is my gripe. A 6 foot bladed sword is a 6 foot bladed sword. A Great sword with a 6 foot blade and a longsword with a 6 foot blade will be virtually identical, weight and balance included, because the hands of a large creature are larger, thus still necessitating the same type of hilt. (2 hand sized)

What you're suggesting is essentially how 3.0 handled weapon sizes. 3.5 changed this, and argues that, even if they're "virutally identical", a Large longsword was made for a Large character, a Medium greatsword was made for a Medium character, and being used by a character of the "wrong size" leads to penalties.

I use the alternate rules in my campaigns, not because I don't believe that there are differences as I noted in the above paragraph, but because I think it's a pain in the butt (and hoses Small characters when it comes to loot distribution).

 

[Seeten]

Basically here is my take:

Feats are powerful. This feat is not. Thus, letter of the lawing this weak feat is silly. If the guy wants to dual wield 2 big weapons, let him.

He could be trying to play a Hulking Hurler, or a sudden maximize rod of quickening munchkin, or a natural spelling druid. Since he's trying to do something that looks harmless and relatively interesting, and is certainly not out of balance with a wizard of the same level without any feats at all, why nickel and dime it?