Medium PC Two-Weapon Fighting with Medium Two-Handed Weapons

[Khristos]

If I remember correctly you can use a larger sized weapon at a -2 but become fatigued without monkey grip.....sadly I dont have my books in front of me but I would wager that the PHB,CW, or DMG covers that

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Indeed, giving up 1.5X strength, 2X power attack... really it seems to me it would just add flavor to have someone dual-wielding greatsword/greataxe. Reminds me of Diablo hehe

 

[Terath Ninir]

I use the alternate rules in my campaigns, not because I don't believe that there are differences as I noted in the above paragraph, but because I think it's a pain in the butt (and hoses Small characters when it comes to loot distribution).

Amen to both. And it hoses small characters in 95% of cases with weapons (the greataxe and greatsword being the two main counterexamples).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Monkey Grip is very poorly worded, or very illogical, I dont understand why I can use a weapon exactly the same size as a Greatsword in one hand, but not a greatsword. Basically, this is my gripe. A 6 foot bladed sword is a 6 foot bladed sword. A Great sword with a 6 foot blade and a longsword with a 6 foot blade will be virtually identical, weight and balance included, because the hands of a large creature are larger, thus still necessitating the same type of hilt. (2 hand sized)

If it's exactly the same, then why does a Medium character (ignoring Monkey Grip) take a -2 penalty when wielding a Large longsword in two hands, but not when wielding a Medium greatsword in two hands?

Obviously, the core rules treat them as different weapons, therefore it's not at all illogical for Monkey Grip to treat them as different weapons as well.
-Hyp.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

If it's exactly the same, then why does a Medium character (ignoring Monkey Grip) take a -2 penalty when wielding a Large longsword in two hands, but not when wielding a Medium greatsword in two hands?

Obviously, the core rules treat them as different weapons, therefore it's not at all illogical for Monkey Grip to treat them as different weapons as well.
-Hyp.

Right, illogical can only be logical with an illogical precedent. Standard WotC operating procedure.



I keed, I keed!!!!

Reminds me of Monty Python LOL

 

[Storyteller01]

Don't get me started on the weapon size issue!!


Realistically, the only two handed weapons that have been dual wielded (or recorded as used so) were those that were usable as one or two-handed weapons (YMMV). Japan has paintings of dual weilding katana techniques, and Europe has wood cuts of dual bastard swords

Don't know about using monkey grip, But I'm willing to bet that it's never been done realistically.

 

[DanMcS]

Monkey Grip is very poorly worded, or very illogical, I dont understand why I can use a weapon exactly the same size as a Greatsword in one hand, but not a greatsword. Basically, this is my gripe. A 6 foot bladed sword is a 6 foot bladed sword. A Great sword with a 6 foot blade and a longsword with a 6 foot blade will be virtually identical, weight and balance included, because the hands of a large creature are larger, thus still necessitating the same type of hilt. (2 hand sized)

This is the argument people have been making since 3.5 debuted, and it remains silly. I wish I could find the picture someone here on the boards used to post to refute such sillyness, but alas, my google-fu is weak. Anybody have it? That picture of arnold the governator as conan the barbarian, in two side-by-side shots; in one, he's wielding a big but one-handed sword; in the other, he's wielding a dagger meant for a giant. It sums up the whole thing very nicely.

 

[Storyteller01]

That is an extreme example (at least two size catagories of difference for the creatures involved).

Don't forget the opposite side of the coin. A 3 year old child has no problem picking up and running with a dagger (the big kind I have to keep in a safe). No slippage are strain. They can carry it all day in that manner. Why would a small critter (same dimensions) suffer a hit wielding it, if they can grip it (more developed muscle and Dex involved here)? Especially since the Small short sword is built to absorb the same forces as the Medium dagger (so hilt sizes will be comparable, given the two blade's identical weight and mass). Might be built for a smaller race, but physics is still going to determine the general built of the weapon.

Also remember, there is no actual classification for shortsword sizes (even D&D sizes aren't set in stone). Collectors describe them as 'big knives or daggers'. Why wouldn't a Large critter's dagger be a Medium critter's shortsword, given that there won't be more than a 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch difference in grip thickness, as well as comparable weight/mass distribution?

The 3.x system needs tweaking, but (IMO) the 3.5 system isn't the answer. Too cumbersome, and it harms the playability of the smaller races.

I'm shutting up now...

PS: Don't have my MM on hand. What is the size catagory of a Giant?

 

[DanMcS]

PS: Don't have my MM on hand. What is the size catagory of a Giant?

You're online, right?

http://www.d20srd.org/

 

[Sejs]

PS: Don't have my MM on hand. What is the size catagory of a Giant?

Hill Giants, Stone Giants, Frost Giants, and Fire Giants are Large.

Cloud Giants and Storm Giants are Huge.