Meta-gaming Player

[Nine Hands]

Funny that you should mention that. I did ask everyone at the start whether they would like to play those sorts of things out over e-mail (especially since when you play once a fortnight time is precious). I don't think that I got much of an answer from the group at the time but I asked everyone again in the last e-mail I sent out yesterday after the session.

I personally like playing through the little details. I am aware that some people don't though and also that, even if people do, it normally results in everyone else sitting around getting bored while one person deals with their stuff.

E-mail is great for handling this sort of thing. If the session ends in town I can get the players to e-mail me what they want to do (if anything) for the next couple of days. Since we only play once a fortnight it means that there is plenty of time to play it out, even if you are only checking your e-mails every day or so.

<snip>

Olaf the Stout

I agree with Olaf here. Using so called "side stuff" via e-mail or another medium (Instant Messenger, etc) is really a handy tool. You can avoid boring players who are not involved and get some good character development. I've even gone so far as to have mini-adventures with players who were doing personal things. It made the game better overall. Just remember to try to offer this to all players, it can be seen as favoritism if you don't offer it to everyone.

 

[merelycompetent]

To be honest, I haven't DMed a 3e game that used standard scrolls. They are less than effective, underwater. Infusions, however, make an acceptable substitute.

Agreed - infusions are a neat substitute. In my homebrew, I set up one of the countries such that scrolls were almost entirely replaced by infusions.

 

[fusangite]

I toss out poker chips with fractional CR values for good roleplay. This has two benefits - immediate feedback and I don't have to remember at the end of the night who did what and whether it was in character or not...

I think that I use white as 1/8CR, blue as 1/4CR and red as 1/2CR for XP purposes.

For rewards I try and split xp as follows - 1/4 combat, 1/4 story goals, 1/4 roleplay and 1/4 miscellaneous actions (solving in game problems, writing a game log, anything that enhances the game experience but isn't covered above).

Thanks Delta Dave! Stolen!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Yes, protect the citizenry from monsters, not crusading heroes.

Like the tavern could stop the adventurers from carrying weapons? Or want them not to be armed? I mean hey, these are heroes...or nasty outlaws. Either way, not someone to be trifled with.

The 'crusading heroes' (also called by the citizenry 'bloody loons who are armed to the teeth') are often the people that the townsfolk will need protecting from. A no weapons (beyond daggers and staves) is the normfor my game world for any town larger than 1,000 population.

If you want the right to carry a weapon in public then get knighted. (And even foriegn knights and nobles are expected to be armed. Deeds alone do not grant the privilege of bearing arms, though deeds and an observing aristocrat might.

The Auld Grump

 

[Calico_Jack73]

My last group was similar. The other players got into the Tactical Wargame aspect of the game where I wanted role-playing and NPC interaction. There were nights where the DM couldn't make it and the guys would still want to get together to make characters and have them fight to see who could make the toughest character. I always skipped those nights. Conversely, when I'd run a game I'd have a less than satisfying experience because while I was trying to inject role-playing in it the group got bored waiting for the next combat to come around. They REALLY objected when I told them I wanted to award XP for role-playing and not for the XP value of the monsters they killed. Anyway, long story short I left the group.

My advice (and it may sound harsh) is to ask him to find another group that he might be more in tune with. Your style and his style are very different... not incompatable but this difference can lead to boredom and dissatisfaction with the game. You are both trying to get different things out of the same game. Because you and your other players prefer role-playing obviously you are going to favor more of what you want in the game and less of what he wants.

 

[Faraer]

All the great warriors and generals in history were metagamers. None of them would have ever been caught making "sub-optimal" combat choices. For example, when Ghengis Khan decided he was going to invade China was he doing it for some other reason than XP and GP? Was he doing it because he took the "Khan" prestige class and thought it would be in character?

He did it because it was in character, and it just happens that megalomaniac lusts correspond with D&D experience and gold. People act to obtain what's important to them, from inside their own reality tunnels shaped by society and early experience, not from objective knowledge of the moral and physical laws of the universe (if that's what game rules are).

 

[tahsin]

What is the point of playing an RPG if you are just going to fast foward past all of the interactions with people that are not explicitly related to the main plot.

Sorry, on this point I have to agree with the player. However, I understand that the playstyle of your game is not the same as his and I think it would be best to part ways or find a middle ground.

For me personally, I treat RPGs as in-character movies. As a DM I love to keep the action going and I don't hesitate to fast-forward if I see that the mundane things are taking up too much time. D&D to me is about adventure and story, not the everyday stuff.

It just sounds like you guys are on different wavelengths when it comes to playing.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I suppose it depends on how humanocentric the campaign is. Nowadays, most adventuring parties are difficult to distinguish from your average band of "monsters".

Which renders those "heroes" no different than bullies. A L10 Paladin will respect the authority of a 0-level guard, when deferring to the local laws. A PC who does not surrender their weapon when entering a tavern is asking for a night in the local lockup.

True, true.

To my mind and in my campaign, there's two types of adventurers:

The heroes, who you can trust because they are backed by an authority. "Backed", in this case, meaning bankrolled, contracted, for services rendered. A merchant house, court, mage's guild [by which I mean a group ], noble, or church [of a good/neutral deity] keeps these "bullies" around to deal with threats to order and civilization.

There's everyone else. Pelor only knows what deeds they get up to in the wilderness, they're often no better than brigands, arrogant, violent, often nonhuman and half-crazed.
Who knows if they're agents of some fiendish power or terroristic church?

The 'crusading heroes' (also called by the citizenry 'bloody loons who are armed to the teeth') are often the people that the townsfolk will need protecting from. A no weapons (beyond daggers and staves) is the normfor my game world for any town larger than 1,000 population.

When I say HEROES, I mean HEROES, not a group of violent lunatics who got locked up in the drunk tank and decided to be friends. You have a strange idea of what a hero is.

 

[Rothe]

My meta-gaming player just sent me an e-mail with his new level-upped character. He also mentioned that he had converted his excess gold in 500gp each silver pearls!

This annoys me a little. Does anyone else have an issue with their players simply telling you that they're converting their gold to gems or something similar? Am I being too much of a control freak?

Personally I would play out the situation with the money lender/exchanger (either in-game or via e-mail). The player would not necessarily get full value for the exchange (the money lender has to make a profit on the exchange too!) and they may not be able to get exactly what they want either. For example, certain precious stones/gems may simply not be available in the area (silver pearls probably would be though since Freeport is on an island) or they may cost more than they are worth due to demand for them (as spell components for example).

What does everyone else think?

Olaf the Stout

Zoink! Very unacceptable, then I was just about to come to the players defense, sort of. On this I might let a player fast-forward through this if it is truly a mundane thing, i.e., gem shops exist for such things and it is done all teh time no questions asked, but with the following. You are going to get the worse conversion rate, if 10& fee is standard, you pay 15%. You have a chance of getting ripped off, the pearls are fake, have defects (so not worth 500gp although the right size, etc.). Also, if not careful, they may be stolen goods, especially if you got a "one-for-one" exchange. I'd probably go with that for this player. Let him make his conversion. Say it took some time to find a shop keeper that would give him the deal he was looking for, but he found a small shop in an alley that did. What a score! If he is going to do things by such fiat you get the say in the back story and this is not unreasonable at all. Now he is in trouble with the law, when the righful owner shows up, maybe a powerful one, and he takes them to the shop it is gone. He can turn over the gems, no harm no foul, or if he resists or doesn't have them all he is put under arrest. Maybe even sold into slavery...hey there is your connection to his background. Also, and even more serious, did he pay taxes on that transaction? Tax evasion is a serious offense, it is just not breaking the law but threatens the entire underpinnings of the state economy and thus state security. Sell him into slavery.


I was going to say on the mundane shopping before that in a big city where scroll components are readily had, money converted to gems, etc. there are many thieves. And guess what, at least IMC campaign, they like hang out and pick pockets where the money is, i.e., near spell component shops and gem shops. So if you don't know the streets, get (hopefully) a reputable guide, there is a base chance you get pick pocketed without recourse.

I'm not trying to drive my players to interact with everything, personally I'd like some interaction 5-10 minutes say of game time per day of mundane activity, fast forwarding if just sitting in a room, doing very little; but I do not like complete player fiat.

On his play style, I would guess it is butt-kicker. I've a strong tendancy to tactician and love the battle planning, but if you put a timer on me I'd love it even more. I crave having to make that snap tactical decision. On carrying 9 crossbows and 9 spears, I mean get real. (Sorry, did I use the R word in a game discussion ). I like to strip a dungeon as much as the next guy, but I'll abide by encumberance considerations (and the ones in D&D are very generous). Again part of the tactician bent, getting as much out as I can under the limitations of encumberance is enjoyable to me.

I wouldn't give up on this player yet. He may have a very useful role. He seems to relish the tactical aspects of combat. That means you can throw more complex challenges against the party and he can handle it. On the other aspects, maybe the other characters can handle that for him for a small fee. At the table he may need to realize there are other gaming styles so why he loves to lavish over combat, others want to interact with the locals. Maybe during this time he can look at the books and think up new powerful spell combos to use in their next encounter.

EDIT After a little more thought, I think my first reaction was too harsh. He may have thought the conversion was no big deal and might be happy to pay the conversion fee. He may also feel he's taking care of things to help out, speed up play and make his character more useful. I apologizie for jumping to conclusions.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

When I say HEROES, I mean HEROES, not a group of violent lunatics who got locked up in the drunk tank and decided to be friends. You have a strange idea of what a hero is.

Oh, you mean people like:
Conan
Heracles
Lancelot
Reynard
Were not Heroes? Read some of the things they got up to. They were indeed heroes, as well as violent lunatics....

Or do you think that PCs do not get up to shenanigans? Or that all regimes welcome people who, ahem, upset the apple cart?

I beg to differ.

The Auld Grump, sometimes the townsfolk like the evil despot that the heroes have come to kill...