Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

greywulf

First Post
Gilladian said:
Over the long weekend I ran a really fun M20 PIXIE adventure. My players were inexperienced or unfamiliar roleplayers, mostly. They were 3rd level - to simulate being pixies I gave each character a special ability (one could fly, one could turn invisible, one could prestidigitate, etc...). I had 5 players. We played for about 3 hours, and a grand time was had by all.

Y'know, I'd love to see character stats for those......... :D

Excellent stuff. And I've still not updated the Macropedia, I know. Blame Daz Studio. It's his fault.
 

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Gilladian

Adventurer
Well, they weren't anything special. I just created base human PCs, dubbed them pixies by default and gave them each a special ability. I made sure that each character had a total of +4 stat modifiers (3 of them were +4 with no negs, 3 had +5 but one -1 modifier).
There was a fighter with flight (3 squares at a time, for up to 3 rds consecutively).
A barbarian - could rage for one combat each day, giving a -2 to AC but +2 to hit and damage. He also had a secret stash of honeycomb, which acts like alcohol on pixies. And ROPE!
A rogue - he could turn invisible twice a day until he attacked or fell asleep. He also had sleep darts that did no damage.
Another rogue - he had a magic satchel that was filled with tiny useful things that became real when pulled out - effectively a robe of useful items.
A cleric and a sorcerer were the final two characters. The sorc. had the ability to cast unlimited cantrips of the prestidigitation/audible glamer type. The cleric was able to ask two yes/no questions each day and get truthful answers.

No one ran the sorcerer as I had one fewer players than I expected.

They basically had to 1) choose which kitten to escort on a 3 day journey - the smart one, the pretty one, the shy one or the bold one. They chose the "smart one" who turned out to be quite booklearned but not very wise.
2) travel through the forest where they were attacked by the giant eagle, who, interestingly, wore a harness.
3) circle around the human village (they chose to do this at dawn) and avoid the "bark-bark" sleeping by the back gate of one house. The kitten, in an effort to "feel his whiskers" awoke the bark-bark and they had to pepper it with sleep darts to avoid a major fight.
4) cross over the bridge at the far side of the village. But they were attacked by giant rats from the village garbage dump first (they were traveling a lot faster than I had expected! this game runs VERY smoothly even with newbies).

The bridge turned out to have a troll living under it. Trolls like pixies. For lunch, dinner and breakfast, too. Flying under a bridge with a troll beneath it will get you nabbed! The barbarian dangled on his rope and managed to grab the trapped pixie before his wings were plucked off - then the rogue shot the troll with sleep darts (very very useful!).

5) a centipede attack came out of the river when they least expected it (this was another bonus encounter to slow the game down).

6) they met a frog in the bog who didn't like them at all and tried to swallow one pixie-rogue. They drove it off with a spell.

7) they attended the Fairie wedding and presented their kitten-gift to the Fairie princess. The evil Frog returned, disrupting the wedding and forcing them to kill it. She turned out to be a frog-pixie witch in disguise, trying to ruin the pixie gift to the fairies for revenge on the pixie queen, whom she hated. (It was complicated; I don't think they quite figured it out).

They defeated the frog, got the wish they wanted, left the irritatingly smart kitten behind, and went home to get drunk on honey...
 

kensanata

Explorer
Darrell said:
For example: Enchanting a sword to a +1 bonus might require the enchantment ritual (obtained from a fellow mage), a masterwork sword, the assistance of at least one other mage, and two successful Knowledge + MIND checks.

What do you all think?

Exactly the kind of thing I love. Simplify spells and turn the rest into DM controlled rituals. Find the right formula, the right ingredients, the right number of partners and followers, do some checks to allow for crazy rolls that change the result and do it.
 

Greyharp

First Post
Grimstaff, I was playing around with your Expert Rules and turning them into a pocketmod when I noticed that you had listed under 7th level Illusionist spells:

"Prismatic Spray: 60’ Cone-shaped burst of rays for variety of effects:"

....but you didn't list the effects. Is this something you have in your notes? I see the original is based on the effects of the 1eAD&D spell Prismatic Sphere and I'm guessing you would've used them or did you have an abbreviated version in mind?
 
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lumin

First Post
I just stumbled upon Microlite20 a couple days ago and I have to say that I am really impressed. Excellent Work! I just don't have time anymore to play real D&D and I think this is a really great way to get my wife and kids into it as well.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I've looked all over for some additional rules on Armor Check Penalties. I'm a really big fan of the swashbuckler, duelist types and am not sure how to implement it correctly as a 'house rule'. As the rules stand, it doesn't make any sense for a rogue to pick regular leather armor over studded leather armor, and there is also no good reason to not have a shield.

If I put in rules out of the d20 SRD, where would this penalty apply to? I at first thought that it should give a penalty to Subterfuge, but that won't include jumping (Phys + DEX). Then I thought it would be better to apply it to the DEX attribute, but then that would exclude swimming (Phys + STR).

So what are your thoughts on this, or is there a 'house rule' somewhere that somebody has put this in?
 

Darrell

First Post
lumin said:
So what are your thoughts on this, or is there a 'house rule' somewhere that somebody has put this in?

The primary 'house rule' for m20 is simple common sense. As far as an armor check penalty, I'd say that whenever a rogue decides to try wearing 'unsuitable' armor, any time he attempts any action that would be affected, regardless of the type of check called for, he would suffer a penalty.

With regard to a reason not to wear heavier armour or carry a shield, with m20 the reasons are usually role-oriented, not rules-oriented. You wear leather armor (or even no armor) and carry a rapier because you want to play D'artagnan or Robin Hood instead of Conan or Sir Lancelot.

Hope that helps. :)

Regards,
Darrell
 
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lumin

First Post
Darrell said:
With regard to a reason not to wear heavier armour or carry a shield, with m20 the reasons are usually role-oriented, not rules-oriented. You wear leather armor (or even no armor) and carry a rapier because you want to play D'artagnan or Robin Hood instead of Conan or Sir Lancelot.

I agree with you, in part, that M20 does help push role-playing a lot more, but there should still be some benefit for not wearing heavy armor since it is still a 'game' after all.

I've been thinking, and I have come to the conclusion that it works better to use common sense instead of a rigid rule-system.

For example, the skill, "Climb" could be a Phys + STR (when using a rope) and Phys + DEX (when scaling a jagged cliff face). However, both of these would be harder to do when wearing heavy armor (Armor Check Penalty).

I really don't understand why D&D has to be so rigid with its rules. It would be a dream come true if D&D 4E came out with just one 30 page PHB with M20 rules, spells and monsters and used the rest of their time/money on role-playing techniques.

Actually I DO know why WoTC has so many books/rules, because more information = more books, and more books means more $$$ for them. I don't think all the rules they have come out with are to make the game 'better' at all.
 

Darrell

First Post
D&D is 'rules-heavy' because the role-playing aspect of WotC is driven by hardcover book sales (softcover supplements apparently didn't sell as well) and miniatures. Releases of hardcover books are driven by new rules and rule implementations (often called "crunch"); and miniatures-heavy games are, almost by definition, rules-heavy.

I (and my players, and apparently many of us who have taken to greywulf's little system) prefer a 'fast and loose' game.

lumin said:
I've been thinking, and I have come to the conclusion that it works better to use common sense instead of a rigid rule-system.

For me, the single most useful tool in 3.x D&D was a simple idea from...somewhere...in the DMG, often referred to as the "DM's friend." Basically, if the situation favours the player, he gets a +2 bonus to the roll; if the situation does not favour the player, he takes a -2 penalty on the roll. This single 'rule' gets more play in my games than any other, and m20 is perfect for it, gameplay-wise.

Simple. Direct. It just seems to work well that way. :)

Regards,
Darrell
 

greywulf

First Post
lumin said:
I haven't read this entire thread, but I've looked all over for some additional rules on Armor Check Penalties. I'm a really big fan of the swashbuckler, duelist types and am not sure how to implement it correctly as a 'house rule'. As the rules stand, it doesn't make any sense for a rogue to pick regular leather armor over studded leather armor, and there is also no good reason to not have a shield.

lumin, welcome to the party :) It's always a pleasure to meet a new micro-recruit.

As regards ACP, in our games we just ignore them under the principle of "Penalties Aren't Fun.", and the game certainly hasn't lost anything in their disappearance. That said, if a Fighter in Full Plate wants to climb a rope (good example, that), I'm going to bang a -2 (or more) on his ass. Most likely, I'd just say "you can't, not in that armour!" and leave it at that. Let him figure out another solution, probably involving pulleys and whatnot. Role-playing, baby :)

Of course, M20 is all about options, so if you want a house rule, I suggest imposing the ACP from the SRD equipment list on any skill check involving STR (maybe DEX, your call). That'll do it.

On the "why not just pick the best possible armour/shield/weapon combo?" question, there's one simple answer: character concept! That Rogue in plain blue leather armour with gold trimmings sounds a much cooler dude than the one in the corner wearing boring brown studded leather, don't you think? :)

Save yer optimisation theory for D&D. In Microlite20, it's the game, not the numbers.

That's what I think, anyhow. And what do I know? :)
 

Darrell

First Post
That's kind of what I was trying to say, too, 'wulf. I'm just not as articulate. :D

At the request of several of my players, I've been giving thoughts toward re-tooling magic; and have come up with a few differences for our games.

Basically, there are three different kinds of magic: arcane, divine, and ritual.

Arcane Magic is based in arcane knowledge and archaic formulae gleaned from an assortment of tomes and grimoires and passed down from master to apprentice.

Spellbooks are making a comeback (as in, "you can't cast a spell if it's not in your..."); and this form will use the 'hp cost' system from the basic m20 rules.

Divine Magic is channelled energy given by the gods to their servants (clerics).

This will be based on satori's mini-magic system, and clerics will be able to focus said energy 2 + MIND bonus + cleric level times per day.

Ritual Magic is found both in arcane and divine natures, and deals with higher magical subjects...creating items of magical power and summoning extraplanar entities (arcane) or communing with deities and raising the dead (divine), things like that.

Ritual magic is based in locating and assembling all the items and focuses necessary for a rite (which can lead to adventures in and of itself) and making necessary checks for the successful completion of the rite.

I'll write it up in more detail when I finalize a bit more about what we're doing.

What do you guys think so far?

Regards,
Darrell

PS-- The reason I'm doing new work on m20 is that my group, having discussed it at some length, has decided that we are going to tweak Microlite20 a bit more, and adopt it as our permanent FRPG system, rather than buying in to D&D 4e.
 


dunbruha

First Post
Just wanted to chime in and say how much I like this system. I'm definitely giving it a try (if I can convince my group, that is...)

I do have one question, concerning the Magic attack bonus (= MIND bonus + Level). What is this used for?
 

Mondbuchstaben

First Post
dunbruha said:
Just wanted to chime in and say how much I like this system. I'm definitely giving it a try (if I can convince my group, that is...)

I do have one question, concerning the Magic attack bonus (= MIND bonus + Level). What is this used for?
From the rules:
"A Cleric can Turn Undead with a successful Magic Attack. DC is the current Hit Points of the Undead. If the DC is exceeded by 10 it is destroyed. This can be used (2 + Level + MIND Bonus) times per day."

And attack spells:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3159777&postcount=111
 

dunbruha

First Post
Mondbuchstaben said:
From the rules:
"A Cleric can Turn Undead with a successful Magic Attack. DC is the current Hit Points of the Undead. If the DC is exceeded by 10 it is destroyed. This can be used (2 + Level + MIND Bonus) times per day."

And attack spells:
http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3159777&postcount=111

OK, thanks, I forgot about the turn undead.

But this part I don't follow (from the link above):


Quote:
Originally Posted by MeepoDM
Also, how exactly does the Magic attack bonus = MIND bonus + Level rule work? I understand the concept, but in regular D&D this is usually automatic with the monster having the spell cast on him rolling a Saving Throw. Is this rule used for any form of attack spell?


We use it for most spells that could affect another creature. d20+Magical Attack bonus gives the DC for the poor schmuck to beat. The only exception is range attacks (Rays, etc) or touch spells, which use missile or melee attack bonus, of course.

But there is already a provision for a spell's DC: "The Difficulty Class (DC) for all spells is 10 + Caster Level + Caster's MIND bonus". So if the poor schmuck needs to "save" (MIND bonus + level), then he uses that DC.

So in what situations is an "Attack Bonus" needed? For "Most spells that could affect another creature"? Like Magic Missle? Sleep? MM shouldn't require any "attack roll". And Sleep should (if anything) require a "save". Could you please give an example of a spell that uses the Attack Bonus? Thanks.
 


greywulf

First Post
Sorry for the delay in replying, dunbruha :)

In our games we've used the Magical Attack bonus for a number of things, including setting the save DC for spells in place of the usual Spell-level based Save DC; that way, the difficulty to resist the spell is based on the level of the character rather than the level of the spell. In other words, resisting the Sleep spell cast by a 20th level Mage is harder than resisting against the same spell cast by a 1st level apprentice. Makes sense to us, anyhow. Sometimes we do it, sometimes we don't. Depends on the style of game, I guess.

We also enjoy trying out other magic systems (several are listed on the Macropedia), and use the Magical Attack bonus then in a similar manner to any other attack bonus.

Hope that helps!

Folks, in light of the Long Threads Moratorium I reckon it's time to retire this long and venerable thread. Heck, it's around 200 times longer than the entire Microlite 20 Core Rules! Many thanks to you, one and all.

If you want, start another Microlite20 thread, and I'll hop on board.
 

greywulf

First Post
This thread is dead. This thread is no more. This thread has passed the mortal coil and joined the great Monty Python sketch in the sky.

Thanks to dunbruha, we've got a shiny new reborn Microlite20 thread, right here.

See you there!
 

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