Mind Blank defeats the effect of a True Strike?
- Thread starter nwn_deadman
- Start date
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Tom Cashel
First Post
hong said:
Hong, if others are coming to their own conclusions and you still feel unsatisfied, then the burden is on you to find an interpretation that works for you. You keep claiming that no one else has given you a good enough answer.
That said, I just wanted to agree that this is a very good question and has been a fine debate!
I think we're just going in circles until we hear from The Sage and/or Monte......and we just KNOW that their answers are only going to fuel the fire!
Good gaming, folks...
Cheers, Tom
Voadam
Legend
another vote for blocking
I agree that the descriptions indicate that mind blank stops true strike from providing an insight bonus on an attack against the mind blanked character.
Mind Blank (again)
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about him. In the case of scrying that scans an area that the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature
simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
The key language seems to be "This spell protects against . . . information gathering by divination spells or effects."
The technical spell characteristic "Target" seems to be irrelevant for this consideration. All that seems to be relevant is whether a divination gathers information about the mindblanked caster.
True strike (again)
The character gains temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during the character's next attack. The character's next single attack roll (within the duration of the spell) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, the character is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target.
True strike is a divination that gathers information about the future. I would therefore say that true sight can not provide its caster with an intuitive insight about a mind blanked caster in the future. Therefore the true striking character can not use the divination generated insight bonus against the mind blanked caster.
Hong seems to be saying that the protection against all divinations does not seem in line with protecting minds as half of the spell effects indicate and maybe also that protection against all divinations and even information wishes is too powerful and he has house rule changed it for his game. A mind blank that just protects against mind affecting spells would seem viable as well as a separate complete divination protection spell.
For my game I do not allow forward looking time spells. I changed True Strike to provide a short term insight bonus to the current ongoing situation. The resulting spell has the same basic effect.
These are fine observations on the flavor and mechanics of the spells and how we changed things in our individual campaigns to suit how we view spells should be.
However, as written, I believe the standard spells provide for mind blank to protect against the divination generated bonuses of true strike.
I agree that the descriptions indicate that mind blank stops true strike from providing an insight bonus on an attack against the mind blanked character.
Mind Blank (again)
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects. Mind blank even foils limited wish, miracle, and wish when they are used in such a way as to affect the subject’s mind or to gain information about him. In the case of scrying that scans an area that the creature is in, such as arcane eye, the spell works but the creature
simply isn’t detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the subject do not work at all.
The key language seems to be "This spell protects against . . . information gathering by divination spells or effects."
The technical spell characteristic "Target" seems to be irrelevant for this consideration. All that seems to be relevant is whether a divination gathers information about the mindblanked caster.
True strike (again)
The character gains temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during the character's next attack. The character's next single attack roll (within the duration of the spell) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, the character is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target.
True strike is a divination that gathers information about the future. I would therefore say that true sight can not provide its caster with an intuitive insight about a mind blanked caster in the future. Therefore the true striking character can not use the divination generated insight bonus against the mind blanked caster.
Hong seems to be saying that the protection against all divinations does not seem in line with protecting minds as half of the spell effects indicate and maybe also that protection against all divinations and even information wishes is too powerful and he has house rule changed it for his game. A mind blank that just protects against mind affecting spells would seem viable as well as a separate complete divination protection spell.
For my game I do not allow forward looking time spells. I changed True Strike to provide a short term insight bonus to the current ongoing situation. The resulting spell has the same basic effect.
These are fine observations on the flavor and mechanics of the spells and how we changed things in our individual campaigns to suit how we view spells should be.
However, as written, I believe the standard spells provide for mind blank to protect against the divination generated bonuses of true strike.
hong said:
Actually, I understand completely.
My question basically asked why you think it is silly. It just did not do it directly.
The wording in the spell implies protection from both mental and divination type of effects on the target.
Are you saying that it is silly because the name of the spell is Mind Blank and you do not believe it should also protect against divinations?
Also, two aspects of the True Stike spell seem to indicate very loudly that Mind Blank protects against it.
1) It is a divination spell.
2) The sentence "Additionally, the character is not affected by the miss chance that applies to attacks against a concealed target." when you consider 100% concealment seems to imply that you are finding out information about the target. If someone has 100% concealment, how do you avoid the miss chance due to concealment without divinational assistance as to the exact location of the target? Doesn't the spell tell you to shoot "here" so that you do not miss because you cannot see the target?
ruleslawyer
Registered User
OK, so here's another for y'all:
Does mind blank prevent detection via see invisibility and/or true seeing?
Does mind blank prevent detection via see invisibility and/or true seeing?
ruleslawyer said:
Seems fairly clear that it does.
Some people might think that Mind Blank just protects the caster, but if so, then you could Scry or Divine on his clothes, the spells on him, or whatever to get around it.
Personally, I think Mind Blank protects the caster regardless of what shape he is in. If he is Invisible, the See Invisibility is still effectively targeting him, not his Invisibility spell. Same as Detect Magic is targeting him, not his magical dagger.
Otherwise, the divination protection of Mind Blank (an 8th level spell) is fairly useless.
JMO.
I would agree that see invisible would be defeated by mind blank.
It seems impossible to me that see invisible would be able to work without having the divining magic affect the protected target.
Which is unlike true strike, which doesn't need to penetrate the target's magical protection's to work (IMO).
It seems to me that mind blank should completely shield any divination magic from seeing/hearing/smelling/anything the protected person. My only arguement here is that true strike doesn't need to do that. It needs only divine whether the attacker is going to accomplish what he is trying. He is measuring himself, not the target. But that's just my opinion.
If you think true strike can only work by divining the target's future, then mind blank would protect you.
It seems impossible to me that see invisible would be able to work without having the divining magic affect the protected target.
Which is unlike true strike, which doesn't need to penetrate the target's magical protection's to work (IMO).
It seems to me that mind blank should completely shield any divination magic from seeing/hearing/smelling/anything the protected person. My only arguement here is that true strike doesn't need to do that. It needs only divine whether the attacker is going to accomplish what he is trying. He is measuring himself, not the target. But that's just my opinion.
If you think true strike can only work by divining the target's future, then mind blank would protect you.
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