Cloudgatherer
First Post
This is reminding me of the see invisible versus invisibility + nondetection discussion....
Mind Blank defeats the effect of a True Strike?
- Thread starter nwn_deadman
- Start date
Monte Cook has let his voice be heard on this issue:
http://pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm13.showMessageRange?topicID=1300.topic&start=1&stop=20
http://pub58.ezboard.com/fokayyourturnfrm13.showMessageRange?topicID=1300.topic&start=1&stop=20
For those to lazy to click the link, here's what he said:
Which is pretty much the conclusion I had come to (that they didn't think about True Strike when updating Mind Blank for 3rd edition, but the current form of the spell would indeed protect against True Strike). Since it was only my opinion, I didn't post it because I didn't see it really helping the debate.
Which is pretty much the conclusion I had come to (that they didn't think about True Strike when updating Mind Blank for 3rd edition, but the current form of the spell would indeed protect against True Strike). Since it was only my opinion, I didn't post it because I didn't see it really helping the debate.
kreynolds
First Post
I still would allow true strike to work though. After all, True Strike affects you, not the target. If gives "you" the insight bonus. I don't see the bonus as any kind of divination upon your target. I see it as a bonus that grants you the ability to see the future of YOUR attack, nothing else. It allows you to see where your blade SHOULD fall. It allows you to fully visualize your combat instincts for one second, which is why you get such a hefty bonus.
True Strike does not do anything to your target. It doesn't affect their mind. It doesn't scry on them. It doesn't try to read their thoughts. It doesn't do anything to the target at all. The spell fully effects you and only you. I don't see how a divination spell could be blocked by mind blank if it is not targeted at the Mind Blank protected individual. That's my interpretation.
Just thought I would toss my hat in. I'm done.
True Strike does not do anything to your target. It doesn't affect their mind. It doesn't scry on them. It doesn't try to read their thoughts. It doesn't do anything to the target at all. The spell fully effects you and only you. I don't see how a divination spell could be blocked by mind blank if it is not targeted at the Mind Blank protected individual. That's my interpretation.
Just thought I would toss my hat in. I'm done.
IceBear
Explorer
I responded to this earlier...if it's divining your future attacks, it has to know something about your target too. How do you know if you successfully hit your target if you aren't allowed to know anything about that target. That's indirectly divining information about the target (eg, "If you swing your sword *there* you will hit your target" which implies you know where your target will be, which you aren't allowed to do with Mind Blank).
And True Strike does scry on the target...even Monte said so - it's gathering information about your target in the future.
IceBear
And True Strike does scry on the target...even Monte said so - it's gathering information about your target in the future.
IceBear
Last edited:
IceBear
Explorer
kreynolds said:
Ok, picture this:
There is a Mind Blanked wizard standing in the middle of a 20-ft square room. You are standing outside of the door and cast an augury spell. You ask, "If I open this door will I see anyone?".
Now, I would answer "No" or "Maybe" (at best), because even though the target of the augury spell is yourself ("Will *I* see anyone?") in order to answer "Yes" the spell would have to divine that the wizard is there, which it can't.
Since that's how the True Sight spell seems to work "If I swing here, will I hit?" I see it falling under the same constraints.
IceBear
What we are dealing with is just a classic example of a paradox from time travel. Knowing the future is impossible because logic doesn't work that way.
If you feel that true strike works by knowing what is going on around you and helps guide your blow that way, then mind blank would seem to defeat it, because it can't find out anything about the target. So it has nothing to do really with "divining" the future, it's a divination that takes a snapshot of the world in the present instant that it can see and apply's an educated guess to it and guides your blow with the results of that guess.
If you are taking the approach that I originally did (and now am wavering on) that true strike works by gives you a somewhat fuzzy insight (it's not auto hit, so it has to be somewhat fuzzy) into your own future, then it should still work. If you shoot and arrow at a flying II mind blanked wizard, will you see they arrow keep going or hear a resounding thunk? That's only looking into your own future. But since your future is really determined by the actions of others who have free will, the future is not set before hand, thus you can't see what will happen.
I was ignoring this obvious paradox and assuming that true strike only affects yourself. Since "yourself in the future", depends on the actions of the world around you, you are really divining the future of everything in the universe in all the planes of existence. I mean, true strike would have to know that 18 parallel dimensions away, in the 458'th level of the abyss, that a demon isn't planing to gate into your world right at that moment in front of your arrow just before you release the bowstring. This is obviously stupid to assume it can predict something like that, but since teleportsing and plane shifting are possible the event horizon of all points in the universe is infinite. Again, I think all that is stupid and idiotic.
I am just ignoring the paradox of knowing what you can't possibly know.
Just decide it is taking a current snapshot and guiding you that way (in which case mind blank protects) or that it looks into your future (in which case mind blank doesn't protect). Pick one and have fun.
If you feel that true strike works by knowing what is going on around you and helps guide your blow that way, then mind blank would seem to defeat it, because it can't find out anything about the target. So it has nothing to do really with "divining" the future, it's a divination that takes a snapshot of the world in the present instant that it can see and apply's an educated guess to it and guides your blow with the results of that guess.
If you are taking the approach that I originally did (and now am wavering on) that true strike works by gives you a somewhat fuzzy insight (it's not auto hit, so it has to be somewhat fuzzy) into your own future, then it should still work. If you shoot and arrow at a flying II mind blanked wizard, will you see they arrow keep going or hear a resounding thunk? That's only looking into your own future. But since your future is really determined by the actions of others who have free will, the future is not set before hand, thus you can't see what will happen.
I was ignoring this obvious paradox and assuming that true strike only affects yourself. Since "yourself in the future", depends on the actions of the world around you, you are really divining the future of everything in the universe in all the planes of existence. I mean, true strike would have to know that 18 parallel dimensions away, in the 458'th level of the abyss, that a demon isn't planing to gate into your world right at that moment in front of your arrow just before you release the bowstring. This is obviously stupid to assume it can predict something like that, but since teleportsing and plane shifting are possible the event horizon of all points in the universe is infinite. Again, I think all that is stupid and idiotic.
I am just ignoring the paradox of knowing what you can't possibly know.
Just decide it is taking a current snapshot and guiding you that way (in which case mind blank protects) or that it looks into your future (in which case mind blank doesn't protect). Pick one and have fun.
