Mirror Image and Magic Missile

[Hypersmurf]

No, in the context of having no effect. =o)

What happens if you don't cast Magic Missile? Nothing.
What happens if you do cast Magic Missile? A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip.

The effect of the spell is what the spell causes to occur.

What is the effect of Magic Missile? A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And except for the fact that neitehr you - nor therefor the MM -- can distinguish WHICH of the wizards doing that very thing, is the REAL wizard.

I'm very puzzled. The "Except" suggests that you're disagreeing with me... but everything after that is exactly what I'm saying... :-\

-Hyp.

 

[Berk]

What happens if you don't cast Magic Missile? Nothing.
What happens if you do cast Magic Missile? A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip.

The effect of the spell is what the spell causes to occur.

What is the effect of Magic Missile? A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip.

-Hyp.

That is the effect of casting magic missile, not of magic missile itself. =o)

 

[Hypersmurf]

That is the effect of casting magic missile, not of magic missile itself. =o)

I disagree, but in this case, not rabidly. I think I said back at the beginning that I could see this one was open to interpretation

But I see the damage as being the effect of 'the magic missile' - as in, the energy dart - whereas the energy dart is the effect of Magic Missile - as in, the spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Berk]

I disagree, but in this case, not rabidly. I think I said back at the beginning that I could see this one was open to interpretation

But I see the damage as being the effect of 'the magic missile' - as in, the energy dart - whereas the energy dart is the effect of Magic Missile - as in, the spell.

-Hyp.

I can see your point, just don't agree with it at all. I'm just taking what the word effect means in the context that it was used in.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm just taking what the word effect means in the context that it was used in.

In my opinion... so am I

-Hyp.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

In summary, a MM targets the character and the MI deviates the missle to randomly strike among the character and their images. When an image is struck by MM it is destroyed. As the missles strike simultaneously multiple missle may strike the same image, destroying it.

Now as to Message, since images cannot be targeted, the spell targets the character effected by MI and then randomly determines if it targets the character or an image. If an image is targeted then it too winks out, but only one as there is only a single target being effected by the message spell.

I'm going to have to stick with the way I figured things before, in my original post. Discounting the "sage advice" (as many of us do) it works perfectly well and uses the current rules and FAQ. (btw, I still haven't found anything in the FAQ that would lead one to believe that an image can be targeted, so it must have been sage advice, heh).

It's all good. I just see no reason to allow an image to be targeted (nothing officially stating this either). If you do then all sort of wackiness occurs, so just don't do it. I solved all the problems for myself, others can do so as well if they desire.

Besides disagreeing with me does anyone see any problems with how I have it working? Are there any problem spots that I missed? I don't see any but that may be because I'm too close to it (refer to original post for full clarity). Hyper, what do you think about it's functionality?

 

[Murrdox]

I don't understand how you can say that you can't target an image with a Magic Missle.

So in your land, what the heck happens if I try to cast Magic Missle at a rock? In MY world, a magic missle streaks from my hand, and then hits the rock, causing no effect.

I have a major problem with this interpretation of both Mirror Image and Magic Missle. Mirror Image doesn't DEVIATE anything, it just creates duplicates. It doesn't RANDOMIZE what image you attack. If it did, why the heck would it have that effect on a Magic Missle, but not on an arrow?

And just because Magic Missle's "target" is listed as a creature doesn't mean you can't cast it at other things (at least in MY world).

Magic Missle creates a magical energy missle which unerringly strikes its target. If the target happens to be a creature, then the missle does 1d4+1 points of damage, otherwise, it doesn't affect any "non-creature" target.

Thus, you can cast it at a rock, but all you get is a fancy light show, and not even a scortch mark on a rock.

If you want to say that spells automatically "fizzle" if they don't target something appropriate, that just screws up targets and illusions in general. You'd instantly know ANY illusion was an illusion, just by targetting it with a spell such as MM, and that seems REALLY bad in my view. You want to say that Magic Missle fizzles when you try to cast it at a Major Image, for example??

 

[Hypersmurf]

So in your land, what the heck happens if I try to cast Magic Missle at a rock? In MY world, a magic missle streaks from my hand, and then hits the rock, causing no effect.

Nothing. It's not a creature. The spell has no valid target, and fails.

You could cast it at a roc, but not a rock.

If you want to say that spells automatically "fizzle" if they don't target something appropriate, that just screws up targets and illusions in general. You'd instantly know ANY illusion was an illusion, just by targetting it with a spell such as MM, and that seems REALLY bad in my view. You want to say that Magic Missle fizzles when you try to cast it at a Major Image, for example??

Yup. Not a creature.

-Hyp.

 

[IceBear]

This is the quote from the FAQ that implies that you can target a mirror image with a spell.

If I get hit by a fireball spell while I’m using a mirror
image spell, do all my images disappear? The spell as
written in the book seems to imply that they survive but it
would seem to me that any area effect damage should wipe
them all out.

Area spells don’t destroy the figments created by the mirror
image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is
“targeted,” look at the information that proceeds each spell
description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is
targeted. A spell also is “targeted” if it has an Effect entry and
the effect is a ray or something else that requires a melee or
ranged attack to strike a foe, such as the missile created by the
Melf’s acid arrow spell or the beam of fire from a flame blade
spell.

This states that targetted spells destroy mirror images. The only way that could happen is if you could target the images with said spells. What I think needs to be added to this is the spells must cause damage or you'll get Message spells destroying mirror images too.

Again, I think that Hypersmurf's definition is fine as per the PHB. I just have a personal preference similar to Murrdox in that the spell would go off and have no effect, rather than just have no effect I've also seen this happen in several D&D novels and I like it

IceBear