MM4 Table of Contents up

[Mercule]

Let's see....

Things that interest me, or at least sound like they might be cool:
-Demons
-Bloodhulk
-Corrupture
-Necrosis Carnex
-Plaguewalker
-Wrackspawn
-'loths

Things I'm highly skeptical of:
-Demonhive (please don't be insect demons)
-Dwarf Ancestor
-Howler Wasp
-Various Spiders (got too many, already)
-Fang Golem (some golems are cool, but this doesn't sound like a hit)
-Concordant Killer (might be cool, but I'm thinking it's something else)
-Sailsnake (actually, I can't see anything worthwhile having a name like that)
-Orcs, Ogres, Gnolls, etc. (don't we have stats for these guys?)
-Gith (I don't use 'em, but they might be okay for a Greyhawk campaign)
-Avatars of Elemental Evil (why?)
-Clockwork critters

Things I'm pretty sure are going to make me want to beat a developer:
-Spawn of Tiamat (from the samples on the WotC site, this idea is irredemable)
-Drow (if I never hear the word "drow" again, well, I'll be happy)
-Lolth-touched (see "drow", add in "spawn of Tiamat")
-Yuan-ti (not as cliched as drow, but not really interesting, either)


Everything else, I'm indifferent to, at least initially.

I like the listing of Summonable Creatures, and similar resources. I love the inclusion of a "by type" listing. But, considering the list of "I think I'm gonna hate it" and "I know I'm gonna hate it" seriously outnumbers the list of "think I'll like it", and I actually padded my "good" list a bit, I can't imagine I'll ever get this book.

Honestly, MM4 sounds like a really bad joke, to me. As always, though, I'll thumb through it before deciding.

 

[atom crash]

There seems to be a serious lack of original content when compared to previous Monster Manuals.

This is a valid point. But when you get right down to it, do we really even need another Monster Manual? I mean, I have books full of monsters I won't ever use already. I don't really feel the overwhelming need for any more books with new monsters in them. Heck, I don't think I've actually used anything except the Boneclaw from MMIII (ok, so I had an encounter with Ambush Drakes planned but my PCs avoided that part of the dungeon). But I keep buying them, because I actually like getting more books full of monsters.

I'm liking it. This stuff sounds pretty useful.
With several hundred published monsters, just from WOTC alone, with templates, and the ability to advance monsters... how many more do we really need? Pre-printed game stats and encounters are really helpful.

Agreed. Judging by the table of contents for MMIV it looks like there's a decent mix of things I can actually use and things that will be interesting to read even though I know I'll never ever be able to use them.

However, I'll actually reserve my judgment until I can flip through the book and decide for myself whether or not its worth it. Chance are, it'll end up on my shelf.

Edit to comment on Mercule's list of potential likes/dislikes, posted while I was typing my post. Your list inspired me to comment on what interests me from the ToC:

I agree that the Necrosis Carnex sounds cool. Don't know what it might be, but it definitely sounds cool. But unlike you, I'm not too interested in seeing any more demons, devils or yugoloths for a while. Unless of course they are unique demons, devils or 'loths, but that's the focus of another series of books.

Give me more insects, clockworks, or yuan-ti any day, since those things will most likely slot into my game nicely. And avatars of Elemental Evil? Yes, please!

 

[demiurge1138]

I've had mixed feelings about this one for a while. The combination of a ton of dragonspawn of Tiamat - the ones of which I've read have been fairly uninspired - and NPC blocks of classed ogres, orcs, drow, etc are making me nervous. On the other hand, those classed ogres, orcs, etc are useful. Screw this "spoonfeeding" noise, I definately don't have as much time to churn out statblocks as I used to, and if I can get a platoon of elite orcs for a random encounter without having to spend an hour or two plugging numbers, so much the better.

I do wish they wouldn't put them in a "Monster Manual", though. The Flock of Foes approach seems wiser - clever combinations of templates and classes in a book of their own.

But we'll see. If the monsters in there are actually interesting, all the better. The expanded flavor text in Hordes of the Abyss was classily written and handy for firing off the ol' inspiration neurons, so if these beasties are on the same plane, it'd be worth it.

As much as I'd like a huge slab of monsters (I got into D&D by the 2e Monstrous Manual, and monsters are still my favorite part of the game) to read about, it's really a matter of how many I'll actually use. At this point, I think I'd rather have a good selection of useful monsters than a horde of them I'll never use.

...speaking of which, I smell an idea for a new thread. Excuse me.

Demiurge out.

 

[Arnwyn]

Here's the full list:
/snip/

Looks pretty uninteresting, to me. Might pick it up a bit later in the under $10 bargain bin.

 

[Mercule]

Don't overlook this book, and don't judge it by a perceived lack of content. I *love* the MM IV, it's really inspiring me in a way that nothing has in a long while. The expanded content for each monster is very interesting and useful, and more than makes up for the "low" total number of monsters presented. In addition, the content is varied and uses a lot of sources that you haven't traditionally seen in a Monster Manual. Overall I think this is the best Monster Manual yet.

I'm hoping you're right. It sounds like you've seen it already, so that's good.

My lack of interest in the book comes not from perception of lack of content, but from perception that what content is there is low quality. You can read in my above message the specifics, but it's safe to say that the items I've listed in my lowest category are indicative, IMO, of banality.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A quick reminder folks - please avoid making snarky comments about groups of people who like something different to you, and avoid responding to any such remarks if they are made - this way lies ENworld happiness.

Cheers

 

[EricNoah]

It strikes me as kind of silly to judge the actual monsters until we can see the actual monsters. Plus a monster manual is always going to have monsters you like, monsters you hate, and monsters you can't see yourself using right now.

I agree with d20 dwarf that I like seeing WotC experiment with new formats, even if they don't always succeed. A monster manual that includes lairs and treasures seems, to me, like a good idea. Likewise with the expanded ogres, orcs, drow, etc. Would they be better placed in the original MM next to their base entries? You bet.

 

[Vascant]

I think ColonelHardisson said it best during the early posts of this thread, while some people would be interested in one way of handling NPCs, there will always be factions/groups that want to handle it another way. So while one company will take the safer route in business, the OGL stands ready and waiting for others to take up the flag and create different things and appeal to smaller groups.

 

[nerfherder]

I think ColonelHardisson said it best during the early posts of this thread, while some people would be interested in one way of handling NPCs, there will always be factions/groups that want to handle it another way. So while one company will take the safer route in business, the OGL stands ready and waiting for others to take up the flag and create different things and appeal to smaller groups.

Very true. Which is why I bought NPC Designer last week.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[Shemeska]

You can't get a dreadful lasher with Summon Monster, which suggests it's a new greater 'loth, unless it's just an ultroloth with class levels.

Maybe. But the fact that they seem to have completely abandoned the yugoloth naming convention makes me rather peery.

Or maybe rather than Dreadful Lasher it's 'Dread Lasher' which sounds like the name of a male porn star.