D&D 5E Monks and Magic Items.

Asisreo

Patron Badass
I've seen complaints about Monks and magic items. Specifically that the inclusion of magic items either (a)nullify the monk's ki-empowered Strike abilities or (b)there aren't dedicated magic items for the monk or (c)magic items don't increase monk's DPR compared to other martials.

I disagree. Martial Arts is the ability to turn low-priority loot into decent endgame items. A +1 dagger outdamages a mundane quarterstaff by level 11 and by then, there's probably +2 maces and handaxes available. A fighter would rather have a mundane greatsword but a monk can use any simple magic item to their benefit.

Including shortswords. Which many magic items are capable of being. So, the monk can have a d10 rod of lordly might. Or dual-wield a flametongue and frostbrand shortsword.

They also have magic items that gain their greatest benefits in the hands of a monk. Like the Staff of Striking, Boots of Speed, Winged Boots, or the Ring of Jumping.

So I kinda disagree with the point that monk's suffer due to magic items.
 

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Asisreo

Patron Badass
I've seen it as one of the oh, so great grievances with the monks online. In reality, I haven't seen it either but I'm very curious where this grievance e even come from.

My cynical side wants to say that it's the whiteroom theorycrafters that made sweeping assumptions just to confirm a pre-conceived bias since my experience has been different, but I am curious if there is a basis for the argument outside of glancing at magic item attunement and not seeing "Monks only" anywhere.
 


ECMO3

Hero
I've seen complaints about Monks and magic items. Specifically that the inclusion of magic items either (a)nullify the monk's ki-empowered Strike abilities or (b)there aren't dedicated magic items for the monk or (c)magic items don't increase monk's DPR compared to other martials.

I disagree. Martial Arts is the ability to turn low-priority loot into decent endgame items. A +1 dagger outdamages a mundane quarterstaff by level 11 and by then, there's probably +2 maces and handaxes available. A fighter would rather have a mundane greatsword but a monk can use any simple magic item to their benefit.

Including shortswords. Which many magic items are capable of being. So, the monk can have a d10 rod of lordly might. Or dual-wield a flametongue and frostbrand shortsword.

They also have magic items that gain their greatest benefits in the hands of a monk. Like the Staff of Striking, Boots of Speed, Winged Boots, or the Ring of Jumping.

So I kinda disagree with the point that monk's suffer due to magic items.
I think it depends on the DM.

If the DM randomly determines magic items Monks are better than most classes. In this case many of the OP whiteroom builds in particular (bladesinger or PAM/GWM martial) will be severely nerfed by the lack of that one or two weapons they can use with their abilities. They will still be using mostly nonmagic weapons at level 15 or they will be using magic weapons that are far less than ideal for their build. So your party with no druids finds a Staff of the Woodlands; most of the party will turn their nose up and continue to use their silver weapons, but the Monk can say "Magic staff? Awsome! I will carry it right next to my magic club"

On the other hand if the DM makes sure his GWM/PAM gets a Vorpal Glaive then a Monk is going to be a lot weaker comparatively and it is a lot harder to give the Monk a weapon of comparable overall power in his hands.
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
I think it depends on the DM.

If the DM randomly determines magic items Monks are better than most classes. In this case many of the OP whiteroom builds in particular (bladesinger or PAM/GWM martial) will be severely nerfed by the lack of that one or two weapons they can use with their abilities. They will still be using mostly nonmagic weapons at level 15 or they will be using magic weapons that are far less than ideal for their build. So your party with no druids finds a Staff of the Woodlands; most of the party will turn their nose up and continue to use their silver weapons, but the Monk can say "Magic staff? Awsome! I will carry it right next to my magic club"

On the other hand if the DM makes sure his GWM/PAM gets a Vorpal Glaive then a Monk is going to be a lot weaker comparatively and it is a lot harder to give the Monk a weapon of comparable overall power in his hands.
This is mostly because feats are unbalanced and favors full casters and two-handed/ranged users more than every other archetype.
 




Magic items are poorly implemented in 5e to begin with. Trying to keep the same style mechanical impact from past edition for legacy reasons leads to massive swings in impact.
It did take them a long time to add additional items that were directly more impactful for monks than other classes.
 


5ed didn’t take the path to create items designed for class.
But that is not a problem for a DM.
attunement can be set to monk, and even to sub class if need!

Features that can be added to magic items for monk can include:
Increase size of martial dice
Plain +x bonus
Allowing sneak attack for fist attack for MC monk.
Mimic abilities of others popular weapon: flame tongue, warning weapon.
Allow smite like effect using ki.
Spell like effect fueled by ki or by usage per day.
improve class and sub class abilities.
Allow more ki point
 

ECMO3

Hero
This is mostly because feats are unbalanced and favors full casters and two-handed/ranged users more than every other archetype.
It is also because DMs put items in for their characters instead of putting in random items. This further encourages this practice.

An 8th level fighter who took all ASIs is going to stack up pretty well using a random +2 warpick or morningstar he found as compared to a PAM-GWM fighter using an non-magic Glaive or a bladesinger with spells optimized for melee and wielding a non-magic rapier (with Rapier being the only martial weapon she is proficient in). He might not at 6th, but by 8th level when a lot of enemies are resistant to non-magic damage it is very debilitating to have such a specialized build unless the DM is catering to it.

Feats like GWM and PAM are very good in the whiteroom, but they are also very specific and in a high-magic campaign with random magic items there are HUGE penalties for investing in such a narrowly focused set of weapons. If the DM gives out legendary items like vorpal weapons, sword of life stealing or a sunblade and is not tailoring those to your character builds these specialized guys are going to be weaker than the generalists.
 


Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I've seen complaints about Monks and magic items. Specifically that the inclusion of magic items either (a)nullify the monk's ki-empowered Strike abilities or (b)there aren't dedicated magic items for the monk or (c)magic items don't increase monk's DPR compared to other martials.

I disagree. Martial Arts is the ability to turn low-priority loot into decent endgame items. A +1 dagger outdamages a mundane quarterstaff by level 11 and by then, there's probably +2 maces and handaxes available. A fighter would rather have a mundane greatsword but a monk can use any simple magic item to their benefit.

Including shortswords. Which many magic items are capable of being. So, the monk can have a d10 rod of lordly might. Or dual-wield a flametongue and frostbrand shortsword.

They also have magic items that gain their greatest benefits in the hands of a monk. Like the Staff of Striking, Boots of Speed, Winged Boots, or the Ring of Jumping.

So I kinda disagree with the point that monk's suffer due to magic items.
Regardless of whether you think the current magic items offer enough to the Monk, I encourage everyone to offer a magic item to their monk players which grants them more Ki per adventuring day. Too many monk powers come from Ki, and giving them more Ki is essentially like saying to the party they don't need to interrupt the action to rest so often just so the monk can get their mojo back.
 

TheOneGargoyle

Explorer
Regardless of whether you think the current magic items offer enough to the Monk, I encourage everyone to offer a magic item to their monk players which grants them more Ki per adventuring day. Too many monk powers come from Ki, and giving them more Ki is essentially like saying to the party they don't need to interrupt the action to rest so often just so the monk can get their mojo back.
Apologies for the thread necromancy but not sure if everyone realised that Fizban's introduced this:

While it's pretty random, that should be at least a few extra Ki pts per day.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Apologies for the thread necromancy but not sure if everyone realised that Fizban's introduced this:

While it's pretty random, that should be at least a few extra Ki pts per day.
I had not read that yet (I don't have FIzbans yet) but that looks pretty solid. If I were running a campaign where it was harder to obtain short rests, I'd make sure my Monk player had one of those early on.
 

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
A think squishiness is a bigger problem than ki. So any +1 to AC, or something like an amulet of health, can make a huge difference.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
What I’ve always kinda laughed at is the hidebound nature of some folks view of magic items.

Just…make bracers that do the cool magic weapon thing to the user’s unarmed strike.

Also monks benefit more than anyone but the fighter from every-attack damage buffs, and like….damage isn’t actually that critical. Things like just flat ending effects on yourself, being immune to poison, and being able to run up waterfalls, is just more powerful than 3 average damage more per round.
 

Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I didn't buy Fizban's so I didn't know about that belt. Makes me want to play a monk! More powerful Stunning Strike AND extra Ki? Heck yeah!

EDIT: Or, really, that Ki function as a Monk class ability would go a long way toward fixing things.
 

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