Hypersmurf said:
That rule would make a throwing specialist rather problematical, wouldn't it?
And where's the problem with using iterative attacks to stab with longspear, drop longspear, quickdraw flail, 5' step, and make the next attack with the flail?
-Hyp.
Not as long as the throwing specialist is throwing all of his weapons with the same hand. Besides, a thrown weapon specialist isn't locked in melee. As for that spear & flail guy, though, I would think that switching weapons between iterative attacks is illegal, since that's a special privelage of a monk using a flurry of blows. Don't quote me on that, though, since the PHB doesn't say one thing or the other on changing weapons mid-attack -- the text in the description of the flurry of blows could very well just be further clarification of the fact that a monk can make primary attacks with any part of his body when flurrying, while some guy with a sword and dagger who substitutes off-hand dagger attacks for primary sword strikes is taking a -4 to hit and halving his strenght damage (but not taking 2WF penalties, since he's not making an
extra off-hand attack). I just don't know what the core ruling is on that point. But
I certainly don't let characters (other than flurrying monks) change melee weapons in the middle of a full attack.
Camarath said:
I do not see why a monk would not be able to use it off-hand (monk) weapon to make attacks in a Flurry of Blows while still using it to make the additional attack(s) granted by TWF (as long as the monk still wields another weapon).
For starters, both Skip Williams and Andrew Finch made a point of noting that any weapon you use in your flurry can't be your off-hand weapon, and vice versa, precisely because all your flurry attacks, no matter what part of the body you make them with, are primary attacks. A primary weapon can't be used again to make an off-hand attack, simple as that. It's just more confusing for monks since they're perfeclty ambidextrous and can litterally choose any part of their body to be their "off-hand" any time they want.
1. Imagine a right-handed fighter with a sword in his right hand and a dirk in his left. Every time he swings the sword, he's making a primary attack, but if he attacks with the dagger, or kicks somebody, or head-butts somebody, that's an off-hand or secondary attack and it takes a -4 penalty to hit and any Str bonus to damage is reduced by half.
2. Now imagine that fighter unarmed. Nothing much has changed. If he punches somebody with his right hand, he takes no penalty to hit and gets his full Str bonus to damage, but if he punches somebody with his left hand, or kicks, or head-butts, or does a sumo-style belly-bounce, or any other sort of unarmed strike, it's off-hand.
3. Then we have the unarmed monk. "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed." It doesn't matter whether the monk punches or kicks or whatever -- it's a primary attack. If the monk gets extra attacks from flurrying, they're still all primary attacks. Basically, an unarmed monk is never in a situation whre he has to take that -4 penalty to hit and halve his Str bonus,
except when the monk chooses to make an off-hand attack in addition to his primary attacks (flurry or not). This incurs all the normal two-weapon fighting penalties, and the extra attack has reduced Str damage -- and though it goes without saying, the extra off-hand attack is made with some part of the monk's body that didn't get used to make primary attacks (this normally doesn't mean anything, since all the parts of a monk's body deal the same damage, but if the monk has had, for example, one fist enchanted with
magic weapon or
magic fang, that enchanted fist can be used to make all the primary attacks, or the off-hand attack, but not both).
4. Now take a monk who is armed with a pair of shuang-jin-kun (those are nunchaku for you folks who prefer karate and bujutsu to gongfu). This monk is not unarmed, so the stuff about having no off-hand doesn't apply (that text is under the monk's unarmed strike ability). If the monk is right handed, then the 'kun in his right hand is a primary weapon, and the 'kun in his left hand is an off-hand weapon. Also, the monk's kicks and head-butts and body-slams are primary weapons, since they're unarmed strikes. If the monk doesn't flurry, his attacks work like anyone else's. He can make primary attacks with either unarmed strikes or his right-hand weapon, and he can make off-hand attacks with either unarmed strikes or his left-hand weapon.
If this monk flurries, though, the flurry of blows text takes over. Any special monk weapon he carries can be a primary attack, and he can make his primary attacks in any combination of right-hand weapon, left-hand weapon, and unarmed strikes (kicks, etc.). BUT, and this is a big "but," if you use two-weapon fighting to toss in an off-hand attack, that off-hand attack is not part of your flurry of blows. It can be made with any weapon at all (even one that's not a special monk weapon) that you carry in either hand, or with an unarmed strike with any part of your body, provided that you did not already use that weapon or limb to make a primary attack -- because it's just the same as any other character fighting with two weapons. You can't re-use your primary weapon to make off-hand attacks, and for this monk, your whole body flurrying is your primary weapon, so you can only use parts of your body that you didn't flurry with to make off-hand attacks. If you have more off-hand attacks due to the Improrved and Greater and Perfect 2WF feats, these aren't flurry attacks, so they don't have to be made with special monk weapons, but you don't get the benefit of being able to attack in any combination of weapons. Our example monk, if he used both 'chacks and an unarmed strike or two with a flurry of blows, has only one off-hand weapon remaining -- unarmed strikes. If he used his left-hand nunchak to make all of his primary flurry attacks, the off-hand attack can come with the right-handed nunchak or an unarmed strike. If the monk were carrying a dagger, rather than a nunchaku, in one of his hands, that could be used to make the off-hand attack, but it couldn't be used to make any flurry attack since it's not a special monk weapon.
