Monks, Grapples, and Shoves

[Allistar1801]

Ok, so one of the other players in a game I'm playing is a monk who I think has been abusing the wording of some abilities. He was basically grappling the target with his action and then using his martial arts and replacing the attack with a shove in order to knock them prone. Just to make sure, a monk can't use their martial arts feature to do anything else except make an unarmed attack right? Also how does that work when extra attack is introduced? Is he then allowed to grapple, shove prone and then punch a creature?

The main thing is each of those aren't melee attacks, but are attacks made while unarmed and I think our dm allowing because of that. I dont think that's right, but I dont know all the specifics of the monk.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ok, so one of the other players in a game I'm playing is a monk who I think has been abusing the wording of some abilities. He was basically grappling the target with his action and then using his martial arts and replacing the attack with a shove in order to knock them prone. Just to make sure, a monk can't use their martial arts feature to do anything else except make an unarmed attack right? Also how does that work when extra attack is introduced? Is he then allowed to grapple, shove prone and then punch a creature?

The martial arts bonus action attack is only an attack, not able to be traded like the attacks made as part of the attack action.

Extra Attack does let you grapple and then shove, yes.

 

[Allistar1801]

Ok, but does that mean that he can at level 1 grapple with his action, and because he made an attack use his martial arts to punch the now grappled creature?

 

[Stalker0]

I don’t think I agree with that interpretation. If a normal attack can be exchanged for a shove, why wouldn’t a martial arts attack....which is an attack...be substituted as well?

 

[MarkB]

Ok, so one of the other players in a game I'm playing is a monk who I think has been abusing the wording of some abilities. He was basically grappling the target with his action and then using his martial arts and replacing the attack with a shove in order to knock them prone. Just to make sure, a monk can't use their martial arts feature to do anything else except make an unarmed attack right?

Grapple and Shove attacks can only be made when using the Attack action. A Monk's bonus attack is not taken as part of the Attack action, so it cannot be used to make either a Grapple or Shove attack.

Also how does that work when extra attack is introduced? Is he then allowed to grapple, shove prone and then punch a creature?

No. Grapple or Shove each take the place of one attack made as part of the Attack action, so a character with Extra Attack can indeed do one followed by the other. However, the bonus action unarmed attack granted by Martial Arts only triggers if you use a monk weapon attack or an unarmed attack as part of the Attack action. Neither Grapple nor Shove qualify. The character would need to use at least one attack to make an actual attack, then either Grapple or Shove with the other.

 

[MarkB]

I don’t think I agree with that interpretation. If a normal attack can be exchanged for a shove, why wouldn’t a martial arts attack....which is an attack...be substituted as well?

Only attacks made as part of the Attack action may be substituted for either a Grapple or Shove.

 

[Stalker0]

Yep I double checked the rules and your right. Only on the actual attack action

 

[Allistar1801]

Ok, I will definitely bring that up to my dm.

 

[MarkB]

Ok, I will definitely bring that up to my dm.

Honestly, while these tactics aren't strictly allowed, I'd be hard-pressed to see them as overpowered. Monks rely upon a combination of both Dexterity and Wisdom for their attacks and defenses, while both the Grapple and Shove actions require Strength (Athletics) checks. Trying to maintain three different ability scores at useful levels will only end up diluting the character's core strengths.

 

[Allistar1801]

Another thing I forgot to mention on the original post but that was another thing, he was using those as dexterity checks because of the monk's martial arts feature. The dm said it was ok, but again I dont think that is how that is supposed to work.