Monsters are more than their stats

[DandD]

That random good-looking mortal female just happens to be an immortal humanoid outsider in truth, with a fiendish plan that serves her devilish overlords in the Nine Hells.

 

[Raduin711]

I would have to disagree with the OP. I really don't see how anything has changed that would make his scenario possible in 3e, but impossible in 4e. Either way, you are giving the succubus powers that she normally wouldn't have in order to create the plot you want to run.

 

[Rex Blunder]

But then why use a supernatural outsider at all? Just use some random good-looking mortal female.

If your outsider has permanent charm and dominate abilities, why have it be a good-looking female at all?

 

[bramadan]

Only if she has ranks in "Seduce Monarch." Otherwise its impossible. If you let a beautiful woman seduce an elderly man without solid mechanical underpinnings listed in her stat block, you're a dirty anarchist. So sayeth the usual suspects.

That was broadly the point of my admittedly over-long post a bit earlier.

Reason why you use a succubus demon* instead of the seductive wench is same as you use orc instead of the ugly human brute. She is a paragon of that particular attitude/ability.

*I played DnD since 1st ed and have never gotten used to the idea of Devils as a race. The way I see it there is The Devil and then there is demons he commands. Just semantics I know but it bugs me. As far as I am concerned all generic outsiders (that is non-unique named guys) are demons

 

[pawsplay]

*I played DnD since 1st ed and have never gotten used to the idea of Devils as a race. The way I see it there is The Devil and then there is demons he commands. Just semantics I know but it bugs me. As far as I am concerned all generic outsiders (that is non-unique named guys) are demons

Linguistically, the opposite is true. Devil comes from the Persian Daeva, which comes from the Aryan deva. The Devil is gained his name in approximately the same fashion as the Bible (byblos, a book), i.e. brand recognition.

 

[Victim]

But then why use a supernatural outsider at all? Just use some random good-looking mortal female.

Because if someone decides that the evil wench must go, it helps to have some supernatural mojo backing up good looks?

 

[D'karr]

That was broadly the point of my admittedly over-long post a bit earlier.

Reason why you use a succubus demon* instead of the seductive wench is same as you use orc instead of the ugly human brute. She is a paragon of that particular attitude/ability.

And a very good post it was.

Besides, corruption is much more insidious if you can't blame it on magic. If the king was affected by magic the whole time that he was giving the order to execute the villagers in that small hamlet, he has an excuse. If he did it because he did not want his secret tryst exposed it is a little bit worse. But if he did it willingly because the "woman" he adores has convinced him that the village is working to overthrow him, then the corruption is complete and he has no excuse.

The succubus works through guile, seduction and intimidation. So she starts her work on the monarch in a very innocent way, getting bolder as the monarch gets more entangled in her web. And what kind of forgiveness could such a man expect once he has sunk to the depths of depravity and corruption that he has? He now only wants to survive, forcing him to make worse decisions to cover the bad ones he's already made, or he wants to die and be forgiven. In either case his soul clearly belongs to that seductress that he wants and can't keep out of his mind.

 

[Sojorn]

Besides, corruption is much more insidious if you can't blame it on magic. If the king was affected by magic the whole time that he was giving the order to execute the villagers in that small hamlet, he has an excuse. If he did it because he did not want his secret tryst exposed it is a little bit worse. But if he did it willingly because the "woman" he adores has convinced him that the village is working to overthrow him, then the corruption is complete and he has no excuse.

The succubus works through guile, seduction and intimidation. So she starts her work on the monarch in a very innocent way, getting bolder as the monarch gets more entangled in her web. And what kind of forgiveness could such a man expect once he has sunk to the depths of depravity and corruption that he has? He now only wants to survive, forcing him to make worse decisions to cover the bad ones he's already made, or he wants to die and be forgiven. In either case his soul clearly belongs to that seductress that he wants and can't keep out of his mind.

So, the question is, what prevented the 3e succubus from doing this?

The question isn't rhetorical and actually has a pretty important answer. But said answer is going to vary from person to person. My hope is that WotC supported as many different answers to the question as solidly as they could. My selfish hope is they supported my answer to the question as throughly as possible.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

But then why use a supernatural outsider at all? Just use some random good-looking mortal female.

It's the stuff of fairy tales and fantasy. That's why we're pretending to be Elf, too - it's not like Elves are really alien creatures that couldn't be represented by humans with a knack for bows & magic.

Or do make it even more sinister. It's not about whether you made a bad decision. It's about being seduced by a Devil and losing your soul in the process. That's raising the stakes.

Basically, both Elves instead of Human archer culture, and the Succubus, you "exaggerate" what you're really talking about, to make the matter more important, to make you realize it's important.

In the end, it is nothing but a storytelling device.

 

[Professor Phobos]

But then why use a supernatural outsider at all? Just use some random good-looking mortal female.

More-or-less because supernatural crazyness is fun, and killing a succubus isn't what most people would call "murder", while assassinating a royal consort because "she's evil" generally is.