Monsters are more than their stats

[Lacyon]

Any particular reason why it needs to be a Succubus, then, rather than a Really Hot Chick?

No. Any really hot chick whose goal is to lead an entire nation into damnation or manipulate its ruler into doing the bidding of the Nine Hells will do.

But being able to change your appearance at will probably helps. And actually being someone from the Nine Hells instead of a third party that probably helps keep your agenda from diverging too far.

 

[Cadfan]

Any particular reason why it needs to be a Succubus, then, rather than a Really Hot Chick?

Because its more fun to chop the former up into little pieces.

The problem with magic inflation, as he's using the term, is not "oh noes there's magic in my game!" Its the laser/anti-laser-shield/super-shield-penetrating-laser phenomena. Having "detect magic" in the game necessitates a spell that makes it so you can't detect magic, otherwise plotlines about magically disguised people are impossible as long as first level wizards are about. So countermeasure spells are added. And then inevitably a counter-countermeasure spell is added. The cycle never ends.

 

[D'karr]

All I want is some sharks. With Laserbeams attached to their heads.

 

[Cadfan]

Your sharks are powerless against my sharkbite proof wetsuit and my aquatic anti laser shield.

 

[Mirtek]

Look, the Court Wizard and/or the High Holy Priest will simply see it instantly. Heck, it's their very job to ensure the magical and spiritual safety of the king in the first place. No need for any adventurer to cast Dispel and Detect Magic at all, because the Succubus would have been instantly been slain by these two guys with their own retinue.

Which also applies to a Succubus charming the king the non-magical way. It's also their job to see through her alter self.

Well, the "D&D-meta-setting" for 3rd edition was Greyhawk...
Yeah, but that's all Greyhawk-stuff, isn't it?

Much of it is Greyhawk stuff, but by the same tokken all of it is "Great Wheel" stuff and thus at last stuff of every setting touched by Planescape.

I have never played Greyhawk until 2003 and yet I knew all this stuff long before, it just was "the D&D stuff"

Well, what do you mean with run-off-the-mill concepts?

Well, they took almost anything that was unique and against the mainstream run-off-the-mill fantasy world out.

E.g. that the planes cared more about chaos vs. law than good vs. evil and that even the celestials were divided by this chasm.

 

[LostSoul]

1. The PCs want to break the control the Succubus has over the country.
2. The PCs have allied/bargained with a Succubus to gain control of a country
3. The PCs dominate/blackmail/force the Succubus to gain control over a country and do what they tell her.
4. The PCs suspect that the country is under the control of a Succubus and want to investigate.

If you want to keep the game consistent (for example when the PCs had previous encounters with Succubi) its important that the DM knows how this works.

He could know how a Succubus works abstractly - that is, in the game world - and use a skill challenge to resolve any conflict between PC and NPC to cover all of those possibilities.

 

[Kishin]

Well, they took almost anything that was unique and against the mainstream run-off-the-mill fantasy world out.

E.g. that the planes cared more about chaos vs. law than good vs. evil and that even the celestials were divided by this chasm.

Law/Chaos has been a commonplace fantasy trope since Moorcock, to be fair. I'd hardly qualify it as unique and mainstream.

 

[Mallus]

That is of course not inconsistent because you created a rule which is valid for all Succubus.

Let me ask you this: why is it important to create rules that are valid for all succubae? Why the need for a global-level rule when a local-level ruling should suffice? So long as the players are given the opportunity to gain intelligence that helps them defeat a specific plot-relevant succubus, what's the problem?

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, not to mention games where we pretend to be elves fighting hobgoblins...

Besides, he current rules allow for so much monster customization, through templates and class levels, that monsters of the same type can be made essentially unique --and thus negating the importance of prior encounters w/that type-- if the DM chooses to go that route.

 

[Mallus]

The problem with magic inflation, as he's using the term, is not "oh noes there's magic in my game!" Its the laser/anti-laser-shield/super-shield-penetrating-laser phenomena. Having "detect magic" in the game necessitates a spell that makes it so you can't detect magic, otherwise plotlines about magically disguised people are impossible as long as first level wizards are about. So countermeasure spells are added. And then inevitably a counter-countermeasure spell is added. The cycle never ends.

That cycle can be a lot of fun... in games where every PC has access to what amount to metahuman powers; like supers systems like Mutants and Masterminds and Champions, where even your 3rd rate Batman clone carries ghost-repellent in his utility belt.

The magic escalation problem is particularly problematic in D&D since the system assumes half the party won't have built-in supernatural powers. And of course, 3e addressed that issue by assuming --but not making especially clear-- that every PC could purchase magical powers with sufficient cash.

 

[Wormwood]

The cycle never ends.

It had better damn well end in six weeks.