Moral Quandary....SOLVED! :)

[Treebore]

We're not talking about someone who shot someone, dealt drugs, or sold a hot stereo. As Mallus mentioned, there was some complicity here already. But even if there wasn't there's a difference between turning someone in to face appropriate justice, and turning someone in to face an unfair system.

Copyright law is simply not just in this area. $100,000 (per work stolen) fines plus potential prison time (up to 6 years) for copying software? That puts the crime between a class C and class D felony. You'd get a lighter punishment for commiting rape, vehicular manslaughter, or assault. And that's before the company SUES you. You might want to consider that before you turn your children in for downloading something from BitTorrent. Piracy is not good, but the legal response to it is much worse.

A crime is a crime. You don't like the punishment don't do the crime. Besides, the severity is due to politicians supporting business over individuals every day of the week. Nothing new there.

If a crime was committed in ignorance, that is one thing. Everyone knows that copyright exists. Everyone knows that using a copy without paying for it is a crime. So they should do the time.

Its one of the reasons why I quit teaching. There was a serious music pirating ring going on, and my Principal stonewalled turning them in. No wonder kids don't know how to behave and be respectful in todays schools. They don't even get in trouble for committing serious crimes.
So why worry about following the basic "laws" of social ettiquette and courtesy?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You'd get a lighter punishment for commiting rape, vehicular manslaughter, or assault

Sorry to contradict your hyperbole, but no.

Each of those has a penalty per incidence of 10-25 years of incarceration in a typical American Court, and will average as much prison time for a guilty verdict as the max for an incidence of copyright infringement.

And that is before there is any civil lawsuit that may be brought. Loss of Consortium cases can get quite pricey, as can judgements resulting from incidents requiring extended hospitalization.

Besides, the severity is due to politicians supporting business over individuals every day of the week.

Not so much- its about the protection of the capitalist economic model- most of which is driven by small business.

It was reported late last year that China- long infamous as a safe harbor for piracy in numerous industries- is suffering a lag in its own IP development. It seems that small Chinese businesses & inventors can't make any money being innovative because they can't protect their IP interests.

 

[Mallus]

So they should do the time.

Care to relate this back to the original poster? How should he be punished for willingly using pirated software long after he became aware of its legal status?

 

[Simplicity]

Each of those has a penalty per incidence of 10-25 years of incarceration in a typical American Court, and will average as much prison time for a guilty verdict as the max for an incidence of copyright infringement.

I was comparing max sentence to max sentence. It of course depends on the degree, the situation, and the judge. But in general, Class C felonies are max 10 - 25 years.
Class D felonies typically have a max of 5 - 10 years. [18 U.S.C. § 3559.]

Let's have a look at things that qualify as class D felonies:
(Source http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/deputy/Documents/unsafeschool/criminaloffenselist.html
Just because they have a nice, sorted list)

Rape in the 2nd Degree:
Class D Felony 130.30

Attempted Vehicular Manslaughter in the 1st Degree (okay, attempted)
Class D Felony 110.00, 110.05(5) & 125.13

Assault in the 2nd Degree
Class D Violent Felony Offense 70.02(1)(c) & 120.05

(I won't go on ... but there's other things on the list that are similarly bad)
Why should the repurcussions of these actions in any way compare to illegal data copying?

 

[Simplicity]

A crime is a crime. You don't like the punishment don't do the crime. Besides, the severity is due to politicians supporting business over individuals every day of the week. Nothing new there.

If a crime was committed in ignorance, that is one thing. Everyone knows that copyright exists. Everyone knows that using a copy without paying for it is a crime. So they should do the time.

Its one of the reasons why I quit teaching. There was a serious music pirating ring going on, and my Principal stonewalled turning them in. No wonder kids don't know how to behave and be respectful in todays schools. They don't even get in trouble for committing serious crimes.
So why worry about following the basic "laws" of social ettiquette and courtesy?

Funny, normally the legal argument is: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Not the other way around...

The application of law to children is especially wonky. At exactly what point do children know right from wrong? At what point do they take on their own legal responsibilities? If you were to immediately imprison every child in America that had committed music piracy... you'd be left with virtually no children. Then again... once upon a time not so long ago it wasn't illegal to share music with your friends. So maybe it's adults who haven't got things figured out.

 

[Ranger REG]

We thought we were getting a legit version... we found out after it was too late that we got a cracked version. (we were on the other side of the country by then.)

With all due respect, if I were in your shoes, the dude who installed a cracked OS is no longer my friend.

But the blame is not totally his. You had many opportunities to get a legal copy of the OS.

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

Go to softwareoutlet.com. They have Windows XP Pro with CD Key for $70.00. It is fully legit. I have one and Microsoft fully recognizes it as I have no trouble with the updates. No manual, but I don't need it anyway.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why should the repurcussions of these actions in any way compare to illegal data copying?

Just because something is merely an economic crime doesn't make it any less damaging to society. Ask the people who invested in Enron. White-collar crime, in its various forms, costs the USA billions every year.

Just because an economic crime is punished with, as you point out, about 5-10 years of jail time and an assault is 10-25, it doesn't mean that the person who commits an economic crime is being overpunished. Many today would argue that assault and rape are underpunished, and in fact there are moves to lengthen both the statutes of limitations and jail sentences of such violent crimes.

 

[Treebore]

Funny, normally the legal argument is: "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." Not the other way around...

The application of law to children is especially wonky. At exactly what point do children know right from wrong? At what point do they take on their own legal responsibilities? If you were to immediately imprison every child in America that had committed music piracy... you'd be left with virtually no children. Then again... once upon a time not so long ago it wasn't illegal to share music with your friends. So maybe it's adults who haven't got things figured out.

They weren't sharing it with their friends. They were selling the CD's for $5 to $10 each, depending on popularity/demand. 14 to 18 year old children know about copyright laws. The ones selling probably knew how the law works better than most lawyers.

If I judged everyones children by mine I would start applying laws about theft at the age of 8. Of course that has to do with the fact that I spend much more time with my kids than many parents and I home school them. As a Science teacher in HS I saw all to well the environment in which my children would be learning. So I home schooled them, despite teaching full time and my wife also worked full time. Parents have plenty of time to teach and take care of their kids, if they make it an important priority.

The only parents I can accept excuses from are those who work two or three jobs to make ends meet. Those who have 1 40 hour/week job, they don't make their kids a big enough priority.

Besides, home schooling a kid, or 3 in my case, only took about 60 to 90 minutes of my time, depending on content. Then while I was grading papers and writing up tests and lesson plans my kids did their homework and asked me questions. As needed. We still usually had weekends free, and we still took family vacations, etc...

Our friends knew not to bother us during the week, except for quick phone calls to make plans for the weekend, etc...

So I am big into accountability and responsibility, not only with the law, but with raising my kids and just being a good and trustworthy human being/husband/father/brother/son/citizen/etc...