More on Enterprise's "new direction" [Slight Rant, long]

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

Please cite an example from a story, plot or other source.

Okey-doke. I will cite what Staffan mentioned, the "Picard Manuver". First described to us in the 1st season ST:TNG episode, "The Battle".

In this manuver, a ship goes to warp over a short distance. If you can move from point A to B faster than light, then you can often arrive at point B while the enemy still sees you at point A.

This may seem to be of limited utility, but it is only one example to show that Trek, when shepherded by someone who actually knows at least a bit about science, recognizes the abilities of warp ships that sublight vessles don't have.

Simply put, TOS episodes and book that had Romulans without warp tech weren't properly thought through. I won't cry to see them correct that rather nasty error in Enterprise continuity. Go ahead and give the Romulans warp technology. Simply don't allow the early Romulans to cloak and warp at the same time, and everything's cool.

 

[buzzard]

I'm always amazed how many folks claim Voyager was horrible coupled with a statement of how they hardly, if ever, watched the show. Let's stick with a discussion of things with which you are familiar so my forehead doesn't get brick impressions...

This statement is one I find to be utterly ridiculous. I mean, ok it is possible that a show could be great, and that everyone who saw any espisodes thought it was poor because they saw the wrong episodes. However, this is a slim probability. Also the premise of your statement is that people would have to sit and watch a show they hated to properly claim that it was poor. How many people are that masochistic?

I watched a number of episodes during the first season. They sucked. The characters were all annoying (except the doctor). The premise was weak. I would periodically attempt to watch an episode during the later seasons, but was always dissapointed. I don't have a running total of episodes watched, but I know it wasn't many. It didn't take much exposure to make me loathe that show.

buzzard

 

[Viking Bastard]

Well, I liked VOY for the first three season. Kinda lacked focus,
but there were quite a lot of good episodes there. It wasn't until
season 4+ that the show really started to go downhill.

 

[Mark]

This statement is one I find to be utterly ridiculous.

Just as I find saying something sucks in total when you are only familiar with a portion of it is ridiculous. So let's delve further into your reasoning and see if we can't sort this out a bit, eh?

I mean, ok it is possible that a show could be great, and that everyone who saw any espisodes thought it was poor because they saw the wrong episodes.

OK. Fair enough. That has nothing to do with someone saying the whole show sucked, does it? Except that they are saying something based on knowing merely a portion, correct?

However, this is a slim probability.

Perhaps. But more likely that they larger the portion they saw the more qualified they might be to stand in judgment of the whole with anything resembling credible authority.

Also the premise of your statement is that people would have to sit and watch a show they hated to properly claim that it was poor.

I stated no premise but your assumption is nearly correct. "...people would have to sit and watch a show they hated to properly claim that it was poor"...in its entirety...

How many people are that masochistic?

You have an Internet connection so I assume that, like me, you read a great deal of material that turns out to have little to no value, not even as a passing entertainment. I think we should both forego statements about masochistic tendancies...

I watched a number of episodes during the first season.

Then I would have to suggest that you could fairly give your opinion on the first season, but I would hasten to remind you that the quality of all of the series connected with ST were of much lower quality in their first season compared to latter seasons.

They sucked.

Clarify beyond generalizations, if you can please.

The characters were all annoying (except the doctor).

During the course of the first season of any of the ST series characters were only beginning to develop. Enterprise has probably had the characters that have shown the most development in a short period of time whereas the chaarcters from TOS, barring Spock, may have shown the least development throughout the course of the entire series. What was it about the Doctor that allowed you not to be annoyed by his character?

The premise was weak.

The premise of the show was that a ship gets propelled far away from the area of space that is known and strives to return even though it is a much longer journey than could theorectically be done in a single lifetime of the majority of the crew (vulcans, and perhaps a few others as exceptions.) How is that weak?

I would periodically attempt to watch an episode during the later seasons, but was always dissapointed.

As with most series, jumping in late can be difficult. The most difficult of the ST series to do such a thing may have been DS9 where the characters and plots seemed to be most intertwined from episode to episode and season to season.

I don't have a running total of episodes watched, but I know it wasn't many.

No problem. Let's discuss what you know and leave aside what you do not.

It didn't take much exposure to make me loathe that show.

Can you be more specific beyond "sucked"? If you cannot, that's fine. I'll make note of that and whenever a Voyager discussion comes up I'll already have that opinion in mind and we can save you the trouble of chiming in, OK?

Well, I liked VOY for the first three season. Kinda lacked focus,
but there were quite a lot of good episodes there. It wasn't until
season 4+ that the show really started to go downhill.

That's rather odd. I found Kes to be a bit annoying and didn't really enojoy the show as much in the earlier episodes. Her voice was kinda grating, to me, and she had a condescending lilt to it. Some people I know have called it "soothing" while others agreed with me. A lot of people have mentioned in the past that they didn't enjoy the show until Seven of Nine came on the scene.

 

[mojo1701]

Originally posted by buzzard:

How many people are that masochistic?

Well, I for one.....

 

[rafrost]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

Okey-doke. I will cite what Staffan mentioned, the "Picard Manuver". First described to us in the 1st season ST:TNG episode, "The Battle".

In this manuver, a ship goes to warp over a short distance. If you can move from point A to B faster than light, then you can often arrive at point B while the enemy still sees you at point A.

This may seem to be of limited utility, but it is only one example to show that Trek, when shepherded by someone who actually knows at least a bit about science, recognizes the abilities of warp ships that sublight vessles don't have.

Simply put, TOS episodes and book that had Romulans without warp tech weren't properly thought through. I won't cry to see them correct that rather nasty error in Enterprise continuity. Go ahead and give the Romulans warp technology. Simply don't allow the early Romulans to cloak and warp at the same time, and everything's cool.

I can handle the 'Picard Maneuver' except that Picard wasn't born yet when the Feds were fighting the Roms. Would they have named it for him if he were'nt the first to use it?

I have to agree with you, the Roms must have had warp drive, just not much of one. Perhaps slightly better than warp 1, maybe warp 2? Who cares.

My real point is that Earth and Romulus had to be very far apart. It should be too far to be bothered with at this time, except by accident.

It just reminds me of the continuity error in the first episode of enterprise, where the are able to get to the Klingon capital in far to short a period of time. Three days if I remember correctly.

In general it show poor contiunity on the part of the writers, and it continues to get worse.

 

[Eternalknight]

Oh boy. This is starting to degenerate into a Voyager bashing thread.... a pet peeve of Mark's and mine.

Now, to try and get it back on track...

Who can't wait to see some inverted bodies in the Delphi Expanse???

 

[Mark]

Who can't wait to see some inverted bodies in the Delphi Expanse???

If they run into them early next season, we'll get some insider knowledge...

 

[Eternalknight]

If they run into them early next season, we'll get some insider knowledge...

Oh thats just bad!!! Must have taken some guts to come up with that one

 

[Ghostwind]

Talk about bursting at the seams...