Most Valued Attribute

[Mal Malenkirk]

That thread was started by a poster who was of the opinion that constitution was worthless and wondered if anyone bothered with it.

It got me to wonder about what attribute is the most valued by players on average.

The most convenient sample I could find was the PCs approved for Living 4e EN world.

Some disclaimer about the sample :

It includes 46 PCs.
These are all PHB pcs and PHB + MM races.
These PCs were all built with 25 points instead of the standard 22.

That being said, here are the average scores:

Strenght : 14.09
Constitution : 14.22
Dexterity : 12.96
Intelligence : 12.76
Wisdom : 12.98
Charisma : 12.28

As I expected, consitution won out.

The often decried Intelligence did not finish last, that spot belongs to Charisma.

So it went

Constitution
Strenght
Wisdom
Dexterity
Intelligence
Charisma

The most often dumped stat were, in order,

Charisma (9 times)
Intelligence (7 times)
Strenght (6 times)
Wisdom (5 times)
Dexterity (2 time)
Constitution (0 times)

With 25 points, 17 players opted not to dump anything. At 22 points, that would have been unlikely.

Observations; the value of stats goes hand in hand with the popularity of classes. Fighter are one of the most popular class amongst the 46 sampled PCs. But then again, you can only sample the classes that are being played!

And one would expect that someone who likes their heroes dextrous or smart would be drawn to classes that value these stats or at least won't dump them. i.e. My fighter dumps cha over int even though he is trained in intimidate simply because I prefer him not to be 8 int.

 

[HeirToPendragon]

I won't play a character if I didn't start them with a Con of at least 12.

Everything else is situational and depends on what their class wants.

But I always keep my Con above average.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Why?
Actual mechanical reasons? Or just habit?
Is 2 hp and 1 surge really that important?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I won't play a character if I didn't start them with a Con of at least 12.

Everything else is situational and depends on what their class wants.

But I always keep my Con above average.

Most people seem to think like you. There were only 4 characters with con 10 out of 46 and as I said, no one dumped it.

There is a very simple logical reason for Constitution to be on average higher than other stats.

1 - If you are a from any melee (or close range) class, you need (or at least feel you need) a decent constitution as a matter of fact, wether or not you invest in STR.

2 - If you are never in melee, you typically don't need strenght. But you still need a decent fortitude! So you invest in constitution.

It follows that virually no one dumps constitution. Exotic classes such as the new sorcerer might end up with very low con on a common basis. After all, they stay out of range and have an incentive (If using Drgon Magic) to have a good str. This could lead to fairly common low con build.

---

Another important factor in selecting constitution score would be the campaign : A campaign that caters to the one fight working day paradigm favors low con. In a single fight, it's extremely hard to blow through more than 5 surge in one fight so all you lose with a sucky con is 2 to 6 hp. At high level, it is meaningless.

But if you are in a campaign where you commonly have 3 to 5 fights a day, no one ever dumps constitution! EVER! The difference between 8 and 12 in constitution is being fit or not on the last fight of the day.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, though con helps, I have to disagree with you strongly.
Hit points are a delaying mechanic.
You win fights by eliminating your opposition, and the faster you do it, the less surges you need.

For most builds, all con does is give you a little more time to achieve your goals.
Having bigger guns works just fine.

 

[HeirToPendragon]

Why?
Actual mechanical reasons? Or just habit?
Is 2 hp and 1 surge really that important?

that one surge can be

That extra point of endurance can be pretty helpful to, especially if your DM likes mummies.

This Wednesday I actually had my Artificer sitting at 2hp after taking some nasty damage.

So yes, that 12 instead of 10 in Con is fairly important.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

1 - Delaying defeat means more rounds to attack.

2 - Having 12 of CON costs you 2 points, having 14 costs you 5. People with 14 CON typically also have an 18 primary, people with 12 might have 20. So it's not an either-or proposition.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Ah, but once again, you're claiming con is important after taking some nasty damage.
That's its job, and it does it well, but ...

If you party had ended a 12 round combat 3 rounds earlier, how much damage would you have saved?

That's why I call hit points a delaying mechanic.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

If you party had ended a 12 round combat 3 rounds earlier, how much damage would you have saved?

Fallacious argument.

You will not, by scraping CON, increase your offense by 25% to the point of shortening a 12 round fight to 9. My 14 CON fighter has 18 STR. Would having 9 CON but 20 STR increase my damage out put by 25%? Of course not. Only by about 10%, which would be about 1 round in that example. And that's not accounting for people withg 12 in CON and 20 in their primary. They already have the biggest gun available and still ain't tanking CON.

But you may, by scrapping CON, decrease your staying power from 12 round to 9, on the other hand. Or worse. In the same example, of a fighter tanking COn to reach 20 STR, losing three surges and 5 hp certainly can cost me several rounds of activity on the last fight of the day since I'm likely to get dropped much sooner. 3 surge for a defender is exactly the safety net (two healing word + second wind) to get the job done.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Sheesh.
Typical parties are mediocre at offense.
Atypical parties (read: those that dump con) are all kitted for offense.

I play in such a party ...
There have been several encounters where a single evard's or prismatic spray ends the combat (as the mop up is quick and dirty).

Or in LFR, I have a 20 str battle cleric.
Teamed with a buddy's 20/16 artful dodger, we take down solos in less than 4 rounds.
I've seen the same encounters near-TPK some parties.
With help from other optimised characters, 25% is a conservative estimate.

Edit:
To clarify, my cleric does have 15 con.
I took it for plate proficiency, which is awesome, and not for the hit points and surges.
In fact, the only time I've ever spent more than half my surges in a module is when I was teamed up with a bunch of charop failures (read: 16s in attack stat) .. and got grinded down.