Multiclassing Fix?

[Xeviat]

Extra Attack, Unarmored Defence, that sort of thing. Although that's only surface level, and addressing symptoms rather than causes.

There are two solutions for Extra Attack.

1) let it stack, but add a 0 level to multiclassing (this also helps with proficiency gains and such). Even without a level 0, worst case is a 5/5/5/5 who has 5 attacks. I'd venture a guess that a Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger isn't too effective compared to a Fighter 20.

2) Bring back BAB. Track combined levels for classes which give out Extra Attack and give it when you reach 5th level in them.

Personally, I wouldn't have designed Extra Attack into the game. The Rogue scales nice and smooth, while Extra Attack messes multiclassing up and makes starkly tiered scaling. Multiclass spellcasters get their higher level spellslots no matter what. Their cantrips scale no matter what. Weapon attacks should scale too.


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[Tony Vargas]

worst case is a 5/5/5/5 who has 5 attacks. I'd venture a guess that a Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger isn't too effective compared to a Fighter 20.

Might be slightly behind an EK 20. But 5 attacks, before Action Surge?

Aside from that, yeah, it makes no sense to fix MCing casters together to work basically like MCing iterative attacks together in 3e, but then break MCing together extra attacks the same way MCing together casters was broken in 3e.

 

[Xeviat]

Might be slightly behind an EK 20. But 5 attacks, before Action Surge?

Aside from that, yeah, it makes no sense to fix MCing casters together to work basically like MCing iterative attacks together in 3e, but then break MCing together extra attacks the same way MCing together casters was broken in 3e.

I wouldn't necessarily say as broken, but it definitely restricts choices. You can only dip (up to 4 levels) in another martial class, except for the rogue. The rogue's sneak attack scales so nicely that some levels of rogue ages great for the character types it suits. But a barbarian player character who starts training with a regimented army and wants to represent that with fighter levels will not want to spend that 5th level of fighter.

But, I'm comfortable allowing Extra Attack to be swapped out for an ASI. Maybe Extra Attack could also be a feat, limited by tier?


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[Xeviat]

Might be slightly behind an EK 20. But 5 attacks, before Action Surge?.

Maybe? They'd only have one action surge. They could nova fiercely, though. Rage, action surge, and dump all your spell slots into about 5 smites? I'd have to build one and take a look.


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[guachi]

I spent some time trying to come up with the best equivalent of a D&D elf that I could. I settled on a Fighter/Wizard with XP 2.5x normal to advance. Pick one primary save (con/wis) and one secondary save (str/int). HP was the average of the two classes (so d8 or 5 upon level gain). Basically, it works like old multi-classing where you divide your xp evenly between classes. Since xp tables for each class are identical, there is no need to divide xp, just require more xp to level up both classes.

2x xp was too low and 3x was too high. With 2.5x you get level 11 = level 8 and level 13 = level 9. Overall, you are basically at 70% of the level of a normal 5e character. You have more versatility and a lot fewer HP, but that's basically what a D&D elf.

 

[Tony Vargas]

... The Rogue scales nice and smooth, while Extra Attack messes multiclassing up and makes starkly tiered scaling. Multiclass spellcasters get their higher level spellslots no matter what. Their cantrips scale no matter what. Weapon attacks should scale too...
... let it stack, but add a 0 level to multiclassing (this also helps with proficiency gains and such). Even without a level 0, worst case is a 5/5/5/5 who has 5 attacks.

This problem's been on my mind. 1) I think non-fighters should get their extra attacks later. When you combine such classes, the mechanism could be that you combine the levels, and extra attack kicks in at the level it would for the class that gets it latest...

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

I'm not really seeing that you have a proper reply, so for what's it's worth:

I think he means multiclassing works exactly as normal. He's just making it cheaper in terms of XP.

Yikes! If so, wouldn't a MC character be like insanely more dense then normal characters? More prof bonuses, more hit dice (on top the already custom made synergies)? It would not be until much later that regulars would even start leveling off and by then they would be severely lacking in both skill and firepower.

 

[Yunru]

Yikes! If so, wouldn't a MC character be like insanely more dense then normal characters? More prof bonuses, more hit dice (on top the already custom made synergies)? It would not be until much later that regulars would even start leveling off and by then they would be severely lacking in both skill and firepower.

No?
A multiclassed character hits 20 at the same time as a level 15-16 classed character. At most you'll be five levels ahead. But even then, that's mostly sideways progression rather than vertical.

 

[Blue]

I'm going with the assumption that most campaigns don't reach 20th, so that cap isn't a major balance factor. If that's not true for your campaign, then this won't apply as much.

Also, If something is way more powerful during some levels then evens out, it's still a problem.

Things I worry about:
Taking multiple low levels of casters in order to boost up your spell slots (as well as get a great selection of low level spells). Between some spells that are still quite efficient when upcast and other uses of slots like Divine Smite, this might make some mid-level characters a lot more powerful then those who do not multiclass.

That you can zoom to level 4 in a different class for extra feats really cheaply when you are in the teens or above.

Current multiclassing balance puts a lot of features at 3rd or 5th so you need a significant investment in levels to pick them up. But with this it's much easier to cherry pick those abilities.

 

[seebs]

The initial version is INSANELY overpowered. There's 12 classes in the PHB. Buying one level in each of the classes other than your starting class is 3,300XP, which gets you a total of 12 hit dice. So a single-classed character is a fraction of the way through level 4, giving them four hit dice, and you've got twelve hit dice and a +6 proficiency bonus.