Multiclassing Fix?

[The Crimson Binome]

What if instead of experience being a static number you had to spend it to gain a level in a class, and then the experience points to level up can be applied to each class seperately.

So the first level in a single class costs 300 (?) XP, no matter how many other levels you have in other classes.

What problems can you forsee coming from this?

Going from level 15 to level 16 requires thirty thousand experience, according to the chart I found, but the actual benefit of that extra level is pretty minor for most classes - both fighters and rogues are looking at an ability score improvement, where they have probably capped their prime stat long ago. Instead of gaining level 16 in fighter, a character could gain 7 levels of wizard (24k) and five levels of cleric (6500).

Even if you don't get extra HP from those levels (which you really shouldn't), the ability to cast fourth-level wizard spells and third-level cleric spells is probably too much of a benefit to gain in exchange for ~10 HP and +2 to Wisdom.

 

[Yunru]

Eh, the alternative is always "replace redundant features with an ASI" but that's boring (and not very good if you're playing without/not wanting a feat).

 

[Yunru]

Going from level 15 to level 16 requires thirty thousand experience, according to the chart I found, but the actual benefit of that extra level is pretty minor for most classes - both fighters and rogues are looking at an ability score improvement, where they have probably capped their prime stat long ago. Instead of gaining level 16 in fighter, a character could gain 7 levels of wizard (24k) and five levels of cleric (6500).

Even if you don't get extra HP from those levels (which you really shouldn't), the ability to cast fourth-level wizard spells and third-level cleric spells is probably too much of a benefit to gain in exchange for ~10 HP and +2 to Wisdom.

They'd still be capped at 20 levels, so they could be a 15/5, but yeah, without a multiplier the numbers are far too heavily in multiclassing's favour.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

They'd still be capped at 20 levels, so they could be a 15/5, but yeah, without a multiplier the numbers are far too heavily in multiclassing's favour.

So a ten-class character would cap out before a single-class character hits level 4? That doesn't sound right. It seems like you should also add some sort of requirement to gain the first level in a class, where normally it requires zero experience to gain.

Implementing this sort of multiclassing might be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Yunru]

So a ten-class character would cap out before a single-class character hits level 4? That doesn't sound right. It seems like you should also add some sort of requirement to gain the first level in a class, where normally it requires zero experience to gain.

Implementing this sort of multiclassing might be more trouble than it's worth.

As a ten class character currently would, yes.

For classes beyond the first, I bumped the xp cost up a level.

 

[Xeviat]

Which redundant features are you concerned about? I have some good answers for you once I know what you're worried about.

I think such a multiclassing system, like 2E's, can only work if it's a multiclassed from first level type system. You also might need to start everyone at level 3, or add level 0s to everyone.


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[Yunru]

Extra Attack, Unarmored Defence, that sort of thing. Although that's only surface level, and addressing symptoms rather than causes.

 

[MoonSong]

What with redundant levels and delaying of features and whatnot, multiclassing feels a little off.

Not to the level it's broken, but enough that I want to play around with it a bit.
At first I tried working out a hybrid system a la 4e, but it was too much work (did get a nice Barbarian/Ranger cross-class out of it though).

So now I'm thinking simpler.
What if instead of experience being a static number you had to spend it to gain a level in a class, and then the experience points to level up can be applied to each class seperately.

So the first level in a single class costs 300 (?) XP, no matter how many other levels you have in other classes.

What problems can you forsee coming from this?

Some -including me- DMs don't use XP? I've even brewed some stuff so I didn't have to bother with XP budgets.

 

[CapnZapp]

What do you get from being level 1 in multiple class? You're not picturing a 1/1/1/1/1/1/1 PC having 7 HD, are you?

Yeah, I'm really not following.

So, if your 1/1/1/1/1/1 are you still, in essence, 1st level? You have 1 HD, your prof bonus is +2, etc?
If you're 3/3 are you essentially 3rd level?

I'm not really seeing that you have a proper reply, so for what's it's worth:

I think he means multiclassing works exactly as normal. He's just making it cheaper in terms of XP.

And yes, I think he and you have very different opinions on just how good a multiclassed character really is.

To the OP: I would ditch the attempts at using level xp costs in calculating a "xp discount" for multiclassed characters.

Instead, say something simple such as "you get 10% off". When the other characters need 30,000XP to reach a certain level, the MC character needs only 27,000XP. A ten percent discount.

To me, that's much more straightforward and easy to calculate. And it makes all MC combos cost the same.

The initial idea, to only pay 300 xp for the first level of any class is seriously broken, if only because it completely circumvents the core feature of levelling up: exponential xp costs.

The entire game is built upon the idea that if you keep killing goblins, your rate of level advancement will slow down.

This even as each goblin is worth just as much xp as the last. This is implemented by making each new level cost progressively more xp. It's what motivates you to abandon your goblin hunt and go after umber hulks and ancient red dragons instead.

Which is only appropriate considering how much more powerful your new levels is making you.

Z



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[DEFCON 1]

It seems to me the two places where the "slowdown" of multiclassing is brought up most of the time by people when they talk about not liking the 5E version is the ASI/Feat at 4th level, and the Extra Attack feature at 5th (or 6th). Where if you multiclass equally in two classes you have to wait until 7th for your first ASI, and 9th before gaining Extra Attack.

For my money, my simplest solution would be to just move the ASI/Feat gain at 4th, 8th, 12th etc. and the Extra Attack feature over from the individual Class Level to the Character Level the same way proficiency bonus is. So at 4th character level you gain an ASI regardless of what levels you currently have. Also, if one of your classes in the multiclass grants Extra Attack you gain it when you reach 5th character level (or if that's too much for some people, you gain it at 5th character level if both of your multiclasses have the Extra Attack feature, and 6th or 7th character level if only one of them grants it.)

All the other individual class features can come at their appropriate class levels as normal.