D&D General (+) Mundane fixes to the caster martial divide

[MichaelSomething]

Powerful but dangerous spells?

Lanefan's Dangerous Strenght
Level 2 Spell
Single Target, duration is 3 minutes per caster level. Con save nullifies

The target gain 10 Strenght. This bonus bypasses the 20 limit on Strenght. The target gains a level of exhaustion when this spell expires.

 

[aco175]

I could see just cutting spell damage in half for casters. This will make them focus of other spells and rituals. Your 4d6 fireball would still do something and kill a bunch of goblins, but not giants. Yes, the mage will still have all sorts of spells that fly and open locks and such, but dealing half the damage might mean that some of those slots are saved for more damage spells to do what he once did.

 

[DammitVictor]

I'd go a step further: getting hit automatically stuffs the spell, no save. And have this apply to any spell, not just non-melee ones.

Nah. If you've got a spell that is designed to only work in melee combat, it should be a reasonable option to use in melee combat.

Automatically stuffing the save is a nice nod back to older editions... but worth remembering the only casters with decent Con saves are Sorcerers, Eldritch Knights, and 6+ level Paladins.

 

[dave2008]

There is currently another very active thread on the supposed “divide.” Which is also largely focused on 4e. Could they not be merged?

They cannot. Only mods can do that and they wouldn't do that in this case I don't think

 

[Lanefan]

Powerful but dangerous spells?

Lanefan's Dangerous Strenght
Level 2 Spell
Single Target, duration is 3 minutes per caster level. Con save nullifies

The target gain 10 Strenght. This bonus bypasses the 20 limit on Strenght. The target gains a level of exhaustion when this spell expires.

Given that the actual character Lanefan is a Fighter, I love this!

For true danger, though, I'd have it be more like:

Level 2 Spell
Single target, range touch, duration 3 minutes per caster level, no save (but see write-up)

The target gains 10 Strength. This bonus ignores the 20 limit on Strength. On resolution, and again when the spell expires, the target makes a Con save or goes berserk for two rounds, mindlessly attacking the nearest living creature (which might well be the caster of this spell).

(the write-up would then go on to explain bonuses etc. for Strength scores from 21-30)

That's what I mean by high risk, high reward.

 

[Lanefan]

Nah. If you've got a spell that is designed to only work in melee combat, it should be a reasonable option to use in melee combat.

Spells such as?

Curing in combat should be a last-ditch-only option, and very risky. What else gets cast in melee that couldn't either be cast at range or cast ahead of time?

Automatically stuffing the save is a nice nod back to older editions... but worth remembering the only casters with decent Con saves are Sorcerers, Eldritch Knights, and 6+ level Paladins.

Fair enough.

 

[DammitVictor]

Spells such as?

Shocking grasp or inflict wounds. I'm 100% okay with cure wounds provoking, because that's why healing word exists.

 

[bloodtide]

The best mundane fix of all is a better setting.

The default D&D setting is "Just like Earth" sometime before 1400. So buildings made of wood or stone. Iron tools. Oh and they have fire. In such a simple, primitive world...magic will rule. When one side has a torch....and the other side commands powers beyond all powers.....the winning side is easy to see.

Even just the default Planescape or Spelljammer settings are much better.

There also needs to be more mundane "bonuses". Like a mundane fighter might have a dex bonus and then puts on armor and picks of a shield and gets an AC. And then the only way to raise that AC is magic? Why? Why stop with just armor and shields? How about add Boots, Gauntlets, and Helms? More PURE mundane AC.

Add in Equipment bonuses, so you can get a plus to things....just like magic....but from pure mundane effects.

Add in Alchemical bonuses, again, just like magic....but pure mundane effect.

And have all of the above scale up with levels.....exactly like spells do. A 10th level wizards fireball is more powerful then a 5th level wizards. So too are a 10th level fighters steel toed boots over a 5th level fighters steel toed boots.

 

[Oofta]

Rolling back fighters to be 4E fighters is not, IMHO, a "mundane" solution. More feats? Maybe an extra feat (feat only, not ASI) at all even levels, so one at 2 and 10? Make some of the feats better, like Shield Master granting a bonus to all dex saves.

If you really need to give them more supernatural abilities, go the way of The Witcher. They can take potions that are only available to fighters at levels 10 and above that give them special abilities, they can brew potions overnight with minimal equipment.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Rolling back fighters to be 4E fighters is not, IMHO, a "mundane" solution. More feats? Maybe an extra feat (feat only, not ASI) at all even levels, so one at 2 and 10? Make some of the feats better, like Shield Master granting a bonus to all dex saves.

If you really need to give them more supernatural abilities, go the way of The Witcher. They can take potions that are only available to fighters at levels 10 and above that give them special abilities, they can brew potions overnight with minimal equipment.

Should a mundane person be capable of overcoming supernatural problems?

And if yes, how?

If no, how should the game be changed to better reflect/reinforce that?