D&D General (+) Mundane fixes to the caster martial divide

[MichaelSomething]

If you want your fixes to the martial caster divide to be entirely mundane, then this is the thread for you! If it's not, message me and I'll help create a solution that's right for you!

While I know @Lanefan may want it that way, I bet there are plenty of others out there that would also enjoy this.

First off, I think the Dungeon Crawl Classics would satisfy that requirement. Let's link to that.

Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG|Goodman Games

goodman-games.com

Also, removing many high level spells and replacing them with 4E style rituals would also greatly curtail runaway caster power. I'll link to some 4E thing.

4th Edition

The 4th edition of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game comprises an intercompatible set of rulebooks and other products published by Wizards of the Coast from 2007 through 2013. Wizards of the Coast acquired the license for Dungeons & Dragons since 1997 during its 2nd edition, and they had...

dnd4.fandom.com

That's a start. How else can we fix this without going over the top with our Fighters???

 

[Clint_L]

There is currently another very active thread on the supposed “divide.” Which is also largely focused on 4e. Could they not be merged?

 

[DammitVictor]

Give all characters half their PB to non-proficient saves.

Casting any non-melee spell within melee range provokes. Getting hit by an opportunity attack while casting forces a concentration save or stuffs the spell. Spellcasting occurs in a separate phase at the end of the round, getting hit after declaring spellcasting...

Non-Champion Fighters get bonus Fighting Styles. Barbarians and Rogues get a Fighting Style, and Rogues get a delayed Extra Attack. Maybe classes that get Fighting Styles get a choice between additional Fighting Styles or improved Fighting Styles?

Fighters, Barbarians, and Rogues get more opportunity/resource cost options for ending status effects.

Fighters and Barbarians get PB extra Hit Dice. Paladins, Rangers, Rogues, and Monks get half PB.

Characters that have a Fighting Style get an Expertise Die to weapon damage while using it. Fighters get +1d6, everyone else gets +1d4.

edit: Fighters and Barbarians get an extra skill proficiency at first level, and more skill features like Ranger.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Give all characters half their PB to non-proficient saves.

this has nothing to do with the caster/martial divide as far as i'm concerned. this is just the bare minimum needed to make saves in 5e not silly.

Casting any non-melee spell within melee range provokes. Getting hit by an opportunity attack while casting forces a concentration save or stuffs the spell. Spellcasting occurs in a separate phase at the end of the round, getting hit after declaring spellcasting...

i do love getting mage slayer for free. i don't like having to keep track of who's casting what just to hold it for the end of the round. like, i don't even mean from a balance perspective, just workload.

 

[DammitVictor]

this has nothing to do with the caster/martial divide as far as i'm concerned. this is just the bare minimum needed to make saves in 5e not silly.

I agree, but it'd still be a considerable stealth nerf for spellcasters.

i do love getting mage slayer for free. i don't like having to keep track of who's casting what just to hold it for the end of the round. like, i don't even mean from a balance perspective, just workload.

Fair. I'm just spitballing here.

 

[Lanefan]

If you want your fixes to the martial caster divide to be entirely mundane, then this is the thread for you! If it's not, message me and I'll help create a solution that's right for you!

While I know @Lanefan may want it that way, I bet there are plenty of others out there that would also enjoy this.

First off, I think the Dungeon Crawl Classics would satisfy that requirement. Let's link to that.

Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG|Goodman Games

goodman-games.com

Also, removing many high level spells and replacing them with 4E style rituals would also greatly curtail runaway caster power. I'll link to some 4E thing.

4th Edition

The 4th edition of the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game comprises an intercompatible set of rulebooks and other products published by Wizards of the Coast from 2007 through 2013. Wizards of the Coast acquired the license for Dungeons & Dragons since 1997 during its 2nd edition, and they had...

dnd4.fandom.com

That's a start. How else can we fix this without going over the top with our Fighters???

My fix would be to go the 1e route: spells are difficult to cast (and take time within a round), easily interruptable, risky (for everyone, not just the caster), and available in limited quantity; but the payoff when you do cast one is usually worth it. Mages are also quite squishy. That said, I don't go for pre-memorization: they all work like 3e Sorcerers.

DCCRPG goes a bit too far IMO in what it does to its mages.

As for the ritual idea, my 4e-fu is limited but aren't rituals unlimited in how many you can cast in a day, other than the time they take? If yes, that would seem to somewhat defeat the de-powering idea.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

As for the ritual idea, my 4e-fu is limited but aren't rituals unlimited in how many you can cast in a day, other than the time they take? If yes, that would seem to somewhat defeat the de-powering idea.

time and component cost. they're money sinks.

 

[Lanefan]

Casting any non-melee spell within melee range provokes. Getting hit by an opportunity attack while casting forces a concentration save or stuffs the spell. Spellcasting occurs in a separate phase at the end of the round, getting hit after declaring spellcasting...

I'd go a step further: getting hit automatically stuffs the spell, no save. And have this apply to any spell, not just non-melee ones. Spellcasting while in (or within reach of) melee should ideally be largely impossible.

@W'rkncacnter - the players themselves can track who's casting what for end-of-round just by setting their own initiatives to 1. That said, my preferred solution would be for spells to take time to cast a la 1e, where you start casting on your rolled initiative but don't finish until x-number of initiative steps later e.g. you might start casting on init. 15 but not finish until init. 9, during which time you have NO active defenses and are wide-open to interruption.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

@W'rkncacnter - the players themselves can track who's casting what for end-of-round just by setting their own initiatives to 1.

i was thinking less tracking PC spells and more tracking NPC spells as a DM, especially with multiple casters on the field.

That said, my preferred solution would be for spells to take time to cast a la 1e, where you start casting on your rolled initiative but don't finish until x-number of initiative steps later e.g. you might start casting on init. 15 but not finish until init. 9, during which time you have NO active defenses and are wide-open to interruption.

that unironically might be better, since you don't have to resolve a bunch of stuff at once.

 

[Aldarc]

As for the ritual idea, my 4e-fu is limited but aren't rituals unlimited in how many you can cast in a day, other than the time they take? If yes, that would seem to somewhat defeat the de-powering idea.

time and component cost. they're money sinks.

Some rituals also cost the PCs' limited healing surges to use. Imagine if rituals cost the PC's HD to fuel the ritual.