MY BRAND NEW SPELL!!! (opinions required...)

[Jimlock]

ok...its been a few days i 've been thinking about this new spell...
...now its ready...
...tell me what you think...
Is it broken?
is the Level ok?
does it make sense? etc... etc...

(Dilreen’s) Disorientation
Evocation (Sonic)
Level: Sor/Wiz 2 (3rd?)
Components: S,M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2levels)
Target: A 10-ft./3 levels radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space; see text
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving throw: Will negates or none (object), Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes or no (object)

You evoke magical infrasonic/ultrasonic waves that emanate from the point of origin and permeate throughout the entire area of effect of the spell. Unlike a normal emanation, the infrasonic/ultrasonic waves ignore any sort of cover, for they pass through solid or liquid matter in form of micro-vibrations no mater the material or its thickness.
Regarding ordinary (humanlike) senses, the waves are invisible to normal vision, undetectable to touch when traveling through matter, and almost completely silent to hearing, except for a high-pitched noise in the ears of the subjects found in the area of effect (as if their ears were ringing). As far as ordinary smell is concerned, the magical waves produce the strong odor of sulfur used in the casting of the spell, which is intense enough so as to be automatically detectable within the area of effect, but nonexistent beyond that range.
Due to the piercing high-pitched noise and the nauseating odor of sulfur, all creatures able to hear and/or smell normally (humanlike senses), must succeed on a Fortitude save or suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks while in the area of the spell.
In addition to the above minor effect, special sensory abilities (dependant on echolocation, keen hearing, sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent) such as Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense and Scent, are completely disabled (no saving throw required) within the confines of the spell’s area of effect (No mater if they derive from innate special abilities, (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or actual spells). Creatures relying solely on the above mentoned special abilities are effectively blinded (Just as a human relying solely on his vision would be, if found in an area of complete light). In opposition to complete darkness and much like a blinding light, the waves affect creatures rigged with the above-mentioned sensory abilities not due to lack of input, but because the information is so much around them that they cannot discern any sort of differentiation in the environment affected by the spell. Such a creature outside of the spells area and whose abilities can reach the affected space, perceives a sphere abundant of information (just as a human looks upon a sphere of complete white light). These sort of special sensory abilities permit creatures (provided they are outside the spell’s area of effect) to detect everything else normally beyond the spell’s area, be that even behind the magical sphere (without line of sight), provided the abilities can cover the distance. Creatures caught in the spell that do not rely solely on the above-mentioned abilities can use ordinary (humanlike) senses normally, are not blinded, being only deprived of their extraordinary senses. The -1 penalty affects also all creatures with one or more of the above-mentioned abilities (Fortitude save required).
The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
Material Component: A pinch of dust comprised of sulfur, hair from a bat’s ear, a spider’s leg and a rat’s nostrils spread in the air.



Medieval World/Magic -Vs- Science

In a medieval world there is absolutely no understanding of infrasound, ultrasound, micro vibrations, frequencies (Hz) etc. Magic and magical research is not related in anyway to actual scientific research although it abides greatly to logic. Magic has the ability to bypass the rules of a world that is much like our own with the exception of magic itself.
Therefore the research of a spell such as Dilreen’s Disorientation does not incorporate any sort of scientific understanding of how these special sensory abilities work in the game’s world. A wizard involved in such a research would experiment with bats (echolocation), spiders (tremorsense), rats (acute scent), and with various body parts of these creatures (ears, nostrils, wings, legs etc.) in order to find a magical way of impending such creatures from sensing the world around them. It is only logical to assume (and simple to figure out with simplistic experiments) that such creatures do not use vision (only) or hearing as humanoid creatures do. And since they are not magical beasts, it is again logical to assume that there are other senses in play. Consequently, the wizard may come up with a magical solution for “blinding” related creatures and stripping them off of their extraordinary senses, but he would not achieve it through actual (scientific) understanding of such senses. The wizard achieves such a “magical” invention, the same way a wizard “invented” invisibility, blind, shatter, silence, or some other illusion spell, without any understanding of optics, chromatics, frequencies, the anatomy of the eye, holography etc.
However, spells might as well have very logical explanations as to how they work. Therefore, Dilreen’s Disorientation does create infrasonic and ultrasonic waves (no mater if they are magical, or magically created) that impede such extraordinary senses, without the wizard knowing how it actually works on a scientific level (just like the wizard does not comprehend the effects of high voltage on a molecular level, but simply knows that electricity can harm certain beings and materials).

 

[anest1s]

Well...invisibility, darkness, blindness, silence aren't like this spell. With darkness you can still see, blindness effects only one target and still allows for save, and silence doesn't make you invisible too.

Considering that some creatures have no other way to see except the things your spell blocks, this spell looks too strong. Then again if they have normal vision too, then there is little point to cast that spell. (Low light vision and darkvision are in this too?)

On the other hand, this spell looks like invisibility sphere, except that instead of making you invisible, there is a huge orb of light. I can't see why I would like to announce I am there, when I can simply stay 60ft away (most special ways to see work only that far)

Summing it up, it looks like a very situational spell. If I was a player I wouldn't learn it (but I would buy a scroll with it), and if I was the DM I wouldn't teach it to any NPC wizards (even if everyone in the party had blindsight or something like that) since it would take a lot of effort to actually make it work against prepared PCs. Then again,I would like having a room with that effect in a dungeon.

How about a copy of obscuring mist, except it includes blindsight and everything else? Somehow the fog is thick enough to make them not work better than normal vision would work

 

[Dandu]

Third level.

 

[Rhun]

I'd probably allow it as a 2nd level spell, considering the situational usefulness of it. I'm not sure I've got a player who would ever pick this up for his character though.

 

[Visigani]

At a minimum this is fourth level. It's a very "special" version of the invisibility sphere spell, capable of rendering some creatures virtually helpless.

Consider a Grimlock under this spell and a human fighting a foe under the effect of invisibility.

The Grimlock has virtually no means of determining where his opponent is, but a human can still rely on hearing against an invisible foe. Further, you can ATTACK the Grimlock and the spell stays in effect.

Against said foes this is effectively "mass greater invisibility" and then some. Oh, and there's slim to no protection against it. What's a grimlock caster going to do? Cast Zone of Silence on himself? Hope he prepared lots of silent spells. Enough silent spells to get him through the next however many minutes.

Really, I'd consider pushing this up to fifth or sixth.

 

[Jimlock]

Well...invisibility, darkness, blindness, silence aren't like this spell. With darkness you can still see, blindness effects only one target and still allows for save, and silence doesn't make you invisible too.

Invisibility, darkness, blindness...yes are not like this spell, but silence is. Silence is a 2nd lvl area spell that allows for now saving throw (all sound is stopped, the saving throw applies only in case the spell is cast on an individual, as in mine).

another spell that can be compared to mine is Blacklight Spell Compendium p30

Blacklight
Evocation [Darkness]
Level: Darkness 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: A 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes or no (object)
The caster creates an area of total darkness. The darkness is impenetrable to normal vision and darkvision, but the caster can see normally within the blacklit area. Creatures outside the spell’s area, even the caster, cannot see through it.

The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary when cast on a mobile object. A character can cast the spell on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. Unattended objects and points in space do not get saving throws or benefit from spell resistance.

Blacklight counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level. The 3rd-level cleric spell daylight counters or dispels blacklight.

Any creature in the spell's area of effect is effectively blinded... which effectively renders the caster invisible. It does not allow a saving throw (other than being cast on an individual) and it counters darkvision (and low light vision the same way...).

...So my spell is much like Blacklight with the main difference being that it counters other senses than normal vision. And the main reason i did not originally put in 3rd lvl spells, is that, as Rhun has suggested, it is very situational. Black light is a spell that can be very effective in a majority of encounters (because normal vision is quite common) while my spell will come in handy only when creatures with one or more of those special sensory abilities will come into play. (which is a lot rarer than encountering creatures with normal vision).

Considering that some creatures have no other way to see except the things your spell blocks, this spell looks too strong. Then again if they have normal vision too, then there is little point to cast that spell.

Not true, if the creatures have normal vision too, the spell can still be very effective if it is combined with invisibility. If a creature has blindsight and normal vision, being invisible is ineffective. If one casts my spell first, invisibility is effective once more.

(Low light vision and darkvision are in this too?)

No my spell does not affect normal vision or its counterparts.

On the other hand, this spell looks like invisibility sphere, except that instead of making you invisible, there is a huge orb of light. I can't see why I would like to announce I am there, when I can simply stay 60ft away (most special ways to see work only that far)

It is not a spell designed to only help evade the creatures by staying away (although it can also do just that). It is also a spell designed to help characters stay close to the creatures so as to fight with them effectively (see invisibility example above).

Also, it does not necessarily announce "you are here", because you are not obliged to cast it on you.
As far as the "huge orb of light" goes, i wanted the spell to make some sense. And by that i mean that to actually render such abilities useless, one has to find a way to flood the area with sensory input. This is why the spell is much like an orb of light and not like darkness. If i was to target each creatures senses, that would probably require a saving throw for each creature. By flooding the area with information you do not target each creature separately, but you still can render their abilities useless, remember how Blacklight does the exact same thing with normal vision.

 

[kitcik]

I look at this as follows:

1) At 2nd level, is this a spell wizards will generally memorize? No, it is too situational.
2) Will many wizards want a scroll of this? Yes.
3) Will those scrolls be used a lot? Probably not.
4) Is it overpowered compared to other spells at 2nd level (i.e. Glitterdust)? No.
5) Is it abusable in certain situations? Heck yes, but that's what wizards do.

Therefore, I think it is fine. I see the arguments for making it 3rd level, but certainly not higher than that. And I am ok at 2nd.

The funny thing is, if you created a melee class that got class abilities:
3rd level: 1/day per every 3 levels you can create an area of no blindsense (etc.)
5th level: 1/day per every 5 levels you can go invisible
People would probably say it is broken.

Oh well, that's the game...

 

[Jimlock]

At a minimum this is fourth level. It's a very "special" version of the invisibility sphere spell, capable of rendering some creatures virtually helpless.

Consider a Grimlock under this spell and a human fighting a foe under the effect of invisibility.

The Grimlock has virtually no means of determining where his opponent is, but a human can still rely on hearing against an invisible foe. Further, you can ATTACK the Grimlock and the spell stays in effect.

Against said foes this is effectively "mass greater invisibility" and then some. Oh, and there's slim to no protection against it. What's a grimlock caster going to do? Cast Zone of Silence on himself? Hope he prepared lots of silent spells. Enough silent spells to get him through the next however many minutes.

Really, I'd consider pushing this up to fifth or sixth.

Well as you said it yourself, "its a very special version" of invisibility sphere. And yes it does render some very few creatures completely useless (mind you... there are many more monsters who have both special and normal senses than monsters with just the special ones)...

....but take a moment to think of how many more creatures are rendered useless by invisibility (greater, sphere etc...). Moreover a creature found in the area of my spell has good chances of leaving the affected area in one or two rounds, while to counter invisibility there's only two or three spells that can manage it.

Putting this spell above 3rd level, would consequently render it useless, for a mage would rather pick any other spell instead...

In order to judge the spell's power, one has to seriously consider how situational it is.

 

[Jimlock]

Third level.

Well as you said it yourself, "its a very special version" of invisibility sphere. And yes it does render some very few creatures completely useless (mind you... there are many more monsters who have both special and normal senses than monsters with just the special ones)...

....but take a moment to think of how many more creatures are rendered useless by invisibility (greater, sphere etc...). Moreover a creature found in the area of my spell has good chances of leaving the affected area in one or two rounds, while to counter invisibility there's only two or three spells that can manage it.

Putting this spell above 3rd level, would consequently render it useless, for a mage would rather pick any other spell instead...

In order to judge the spell's power, one has to seriously consider how situational it is.

Ok.. at this point i want to thank my ex-worst-enemies for taking a moment of their time so as to read my spell and answer to my thread. I believe that whatever happened in that "evil" (!?!?) thread belongs to the past, and that there is no point of holding any grudges... speaking for myself... i do not (perhaps you were expecting for a "sorry" but i think that we all crossed the line... so no sorry here )

Thanks again for answering... without any intention of sounding "slimy" i have to say that I truly appreciate your views (except for how broken the AT is or isn't...)

PS: Dandu feel free to throw in a few more words... let me remind you that even "sending" allows 25 words...

 

[Visigani]

Well as you said it yourself, "its a very special version" of invisibility sphere. And yes it does render some very few creatures completely useless (mind you... there are many more monsters who have both special and normal senses than monsters with just the special ones)...

....but take a moment to think of how many more creatures are rendered useless by invisibility (greater, sphere etc...). Moreover a creature found in the area of my spell has good chances of leaving the affected area in one or two rounds, while to counter invisibility there's only two or three spells that can manage it.

Putting this spell above 3rd level, would consequently render it useless, for a mage would rather pick any other spell instead...

In order to judge the spell's power, one has to seriously consider how situational it is.

This spell has SOME use in many situations, as noted by the penalties. Further, you can cast this ON a creature. So that grimlock can't simply "step out of the area".

Finally, there's no counter to this spell. There's no "True Seeing" or "See Invisibility" that negates it without also punishing the caster (again, the only thing I can think of is some form of silence spell).

Dimensional Lock is also a very situational spell, useful against only a small subset of creatures, and deprives them of only a single ability. Despite this it's an eighth level spell.


I'm sorry, if this were cast on a creature that primarily used tremorsense/blindsense/etc as a means to find enemies this is effectively a death sentence.