MY BRAND NEW SPELL!!! (opinions required...)

[Visigani]

I think the spell is fine as is, although you might be able to provide a more concise writeup (something that doesn't take a whole page or two to read through).

Concerning the Dimensional Lock comparison: ridiculous. Dimensional Lock is the ultimate defense vs. Scry-and-Die, lasts 1 day/level (which translates to more than two weeks), and shuts down some of the most powerful spells and abilities in the game with no save. At the level Dimensional Lock comes online, it takes care of a very, very great problem that is relatively common: you'll not be fighting Grimlocks at level 15, you'll be fighting stuff that teleports and plane shifts at will. Securing your study against interdimensional perps seems like an excellent use of an 8th level spell slot once every two weeks. Preventing that Marilith from 'porting out when the fight goes poorly seems like a good idea, given what it might do to you later in the day when you're not as well prepared.

Being deprived of some senses is not in the same league by a long shot. Also, you can target senses much more common, albeit with a save, at the same level. Taking away the save makes up for the circumstantiality of this spell.

Dimensional Lock deprives a monster of a special ability, albeit a potent one. This would deprive a monster of its ability to fight.

Take a look at the Century Worm. Using this ability, a so called 2nd lvl Spell, you could effectively end a CR 19 encounter on a single saving throw. The damn thing has 40hd and you just completely raped it with a 2nd lvl spell? The monster has zero defense against this spell outside of its Fort Save making this a Save or die spell against this creature.


Cast the spell, walk away, plink with arrows. profit.


On top of this, it's an AoE spell with secondary benefits.

Mass Hold Person is a seventh level area of affect spell that affects only humanoids, gives a save every single round to completely negate its effect, and can be protected against via any number of spells and abilities.

This spell is a 2nd level spell creatures with... dramatically reduces the fighting capabilities of creatures with blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight, etc etc.. allows only one save, allows for a negative side effect on any living creature, and virtually no spell protects against it.


That doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[kitcik]

Nowhere in the description of the Century Worm does it say it is blind. In fact, it has darkvision, implying it has normal vision as well.

The Century Worm has a will save of +13. Not bad vs. a 2nd level spell (only fail on a 1 vs. Int 16 --> if you have Int 32, maybe you are high enough level you should be able to effect it).

A Century Worm can burrow, leave the arrows, wait for the spell to end, tremorsense, come up below the PCs and swallow whole.

It could even Keen and give the PCs a taste of their own medicine.

As a DM, would you really let this spell defeat this monster? If so, shame on you not the spell.

 

[Jimlock]

Take a look at the Century Worm. Using this ability, a so called 2nd lvl Spell, you could effectively end a CR 19 encounter on a single saving throw. The damn thing has 40hd and you just completely raped it with a 2nd lvl spell? The monster has zero defense against this spell outside of its Fort Save making this a Save or die spell against this creature.


Cast the spell, walk away, plink with arrows. profit.

I guess kitcik got here before i did... nothing more to be said.

I guess that if you search thoroughly... among the innumerable monsters in the various Monster Manuals... you 'll probably find a handful which will get in a very bad situation because of this spell.
But even that does not prove anything... because those cases are very few.

In one of my earlier posts, i asked you a question regarding the 2nd Lvl Ghoul Touch. Could you kindly answer me?

Just tell how this 2nd Lvl spell is not a "save or die" vs ....a ...say... 20th Lvl humanoid?
...what about glitterdust? not only it blinds but it also reveals invisible creatures!..? what about Web? Blacklight?
Honestly, how can you say my spell is more powerful than the above?

On top of this, it's an AoE spell with secondary benefits.

I answered this in one of my previous posts. I have a feeling that you are repeating yourself without even reading previous answers.

This spell is a 2nd level spell creatures with... dramatically reduces the fighting capabilities of creatures with blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight, etc etc.. allows only one save, allows for a negative side effect on any living creature, and virtually no spell protects against it.

Silence, Globe of Invulnerability Lesser, Dispel Magic, also... the subject can walk away in case the spell is not targeted upon him.( which will happen quite often since such a use of the spell is far more practical because the caster evades the saving throws).

Again... this has been answered before. If you could please answer to posts answering to you instead of repeating yourself?

One last thing. Keep in mind that by increasing the spell's level, you are also making the spell more potent (Save DC).

Regarding your arguments, would you prefer that this, broken spell as you call it, had a higher DC than it already has?

 

[Empirate]

Dimensional Lock deprives a monster of a special ability, albeit a potent one. This would deprive a monster of its ability to fight.

Take a look at the Century Worm. Using this ability, a so called 2nd lvl Spell, you could effectively end a CR 19 encounter on a single saving throw. The damn thing has 40hd and you just completely raped it with a 2nd lvl spell? The monster has zero defense against this spell outside of its Fort Save making this a Save or die spell against this creature.


Cast the spell, walk away, plink with arrows. profit.


On top of this, it's an AoE spell with secondary benefits.

Mass Hold Person is a seventh level area of affect spell that affects only humanoids, gives a save every single round to completely negate its effect, and can be protected against via any number of spells and abilities.

This spell is a 2nd level spell creatures with... dramatically reduces the fighting capabilities of creatures with blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight, etc etc.. allows only one save, allows for a negative side effect on any living creature, and virtually no spell protects against it.


That doesn't pass the smell test.

Even if the Century Worm were a monster that were meaningfully affected by this spell (which isn't the case), how about doing a simple Glitterdust comparison? Wow, totally deprives sighted creatures of their ability to fight! How is that balanced? A 20th level NPC, or a Titan, or a Balor, or a Pit Fiend need only fail one save, and they're blind, rendered effectively useless by a mere 2nd level spell!

Yeah, that's the thing, save-or-suck spells exist in the game. As an AoE effect. From the low spell levels onward. That doesn't mean they're inherently overpowered, let alone broken.

 

[Dandu]

Take a look at the Century Worm. Using this ability, a so called 2nd lvl Spell, you could effectively end a CR 19 encounter on a single saving throw. The damn thing has 40hd and you just completely raped it with a 2nd lvl spell? The monster has zero defense against this spell outside of its Fort Save making this a Save or die spell against this creature.


Cast the spell, walk away, plink with arrows. profit.


On top of this, it's an AoE spell with secondary benefits.

Mass Hold Person is a seventh level area of affect spell that affects only humanoids, gives a save every single round to completely negate its effect, and can be protected against via any number of spells and abilities.

This spell is a 2nd level spell creatures with... dramatically reduces the fighting capabilities of creatures with blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight, etc etc.. allows only one save, allows for a negative side effect on any living creature, and virtually no spell protects against it.


That doesn't pass the smell test.

Greater Stone Golem

Grease

 

[Jimlock]

(Dilreen’s) Disorientation
Evocation (Sonic)
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 2 (or 3)
Components: S,M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2levels)
Target: A 10-ft./3 levels radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space; see text
Duration: 1 minute/level (D)
Saving throw: Will negates or none (object), Fortitude negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes or no (object)

You evoke magical infrasonic/ultrasonic waves that emanate from the point of origin and permeate throughout the entire area of effect of the spell. Unlike a normal emanation and much like a spread, the infrasonic/ultrasonic waves affect creatures with total cover as long as they are otherwise exposed and inside the area of effect. The spell penetrates liquids and barriers (in form of micro-vibrations), but 1-foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal and 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.
Regarding ordinary (humanlike) senses, the waves are invisible to normal vision, undetectable to touch when traveling through matter, and almost completely silent to hearing, except for a high-pitched noise in the ears of the subjects found in the area of effect (as if their ears were ringing). As far as ordinary smell is concerned, the magical waves produce the strong odor of sulfur used in the casting of the spell, which is intense enough so as to be automatically detectable within the area of effect, but nonexistent beyond that range.
Due to the piercing high-pitched noise and the nauseating odor of sulfur, all creatures able to hear and/or smell normally (humanlike senses), must succeed on a Fortitude save or suffer a -1 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks while in the area of the effect (re-entering the area requires a new saving throw).
In addition to the above minor effect, special sensory abilities (dependant on echolocation, keen hearing, sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent) such as Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense and Scent, are completely disabled (no saving throw required) within the confines of the spell’s area of effect (No mater if they derive from innate special abilities [(Ex), (Su), (Sp)], or actual spells). Creatures relying solely on the above mentoned special abilities are effectively blinded (Just as a human relying solely on his vision would be, if found in an area of complete light). In opposition to complete darkness and much like a blinding light, the waves affect creatures with the above-mentioned sensory abilities not by blocking input, but by providing so much information so that they cannot discern differentiations in the environment affected by the spell. Such a creature outside the spell's area of effect and whose abilities can reach the affected space, perceives a sphere abundant of information (just as a human looks upon a sphere of complete white light). These sort of special sensory abilities permit creatures (provided they are outside the spell’s area of effect) to detect everything else normally beyond the spell’s area, be that even behind the magical sphere (without line of sight), provided the abilities can cover the distance. Creatures caught in the spell that do not rely solely on the above-mentioned abilities can use ordinary (humanlike) senses normally, are not blinded, being only deprived of their special senses. The -1 penalty affects also all creatures with one or more of the above-mentioned abilities (Fortitude save required).
The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
Material Component: A pinch of dust comprised of sulfur, hair from a bat’s ear, a spider’s leg and a rat’s nostrils spread in the air.

...ok, i fixed the emanation stuff, i think it makes more sense now. Greenfield? the-jster?

...i changed a few words in the spell's fluff (nothing important)

...i added the: "(re-entering the area requires a new saving throw)" for the -1 penalty

...i included the Bard as Greenfield correctly pointed out, however i'm not really sure of the level...(Perhaps 2nd?)

...i haven't made up my mind on the level yet (Sor/Wiz)

...i'm not sure if the "The -1 penalty affects also all creatures with one or more of the above-mentioned abilities (Fortitude save required)", because in case the creature is blinded as well (for not having other senses) this is perhaps too much... ??

...i'd probably have to cap/change the 10ft./3 levels radius... by 12 lvl that's a 40ft. radius allready... but i don't really know how to evaluate that... is it too much??
Perhaps a cap at 40 or 50ft.?

 

[kitcik]

...i'm not sure if the "The -1 penalty affects also all creatures with one or more of the above-mentioned abilities (Fortitude save required)", because in case the creature is blinded as well (for not having other senses) this is perhaps too much... ??

I think it's ok as is.

...i'd probably have to cap/change the 10ft./3 levels radius... by 12 lvl that's a 40ft. radius allready... but i don't really know how to evaluate that... is it too much??
Perhaps a cap at 40 or 50ft.?

I hadn't really focussed on this before, but simplifying it to be a flat 20' radius (40' diameter or 8 squares) may be the way to go. Otherwise, a limit certainly.

On a separate note, I think Dandu's original 1-word answer, "Levitate," deserves further mention. There are many high CR creatures that are ground-bound with no real ranged weapons. Levitate (with a bow) has no save, blah, blah, completely nullifying the creature other than its ability to run away.

 

[Jimlock]

I hadn't really focussed on this before, but simplifying it to be a flat 20' radius (40' diameter or 8 squares) may be the way to go. Otherwise, a limit certainly.

Using the 20ft "iso" was my first thought from the very beginning... But one thing i hate about certain spells is how they are useless after a certain level (see Sleep). So by augmenting the radius according to level seemed a nice way to keep the spell appealing for higher levels. I'm not sure if my thinking is correct here though... On the other hand the DC will always be low... don't know...
If i don't use the 20ft, i'm certainly gonna put a cap to it. Probably at 30ft. radius at 9th lvl.
(or even 40 ft. at 12th lvl... but i'm starting to think this is too much).

On a separate note, I think Dandu's original 1-word answer, "Levitate," deserves further mention. There are many high CR creatures that are ground-bound with no real ranged weapons. Levitate (with a bow) has no save, blah, blah, completely nullifying the creature other than its ability to run away.

so very true.

a multi-classed wizard/archer-something can be a real pain in the a-ss with levitate...

 

[lordxaviar]

Blindsight[/I], Blindsense, Tremorsense and Scent, are completely disabled (no saving throw required) within the confines of the spell’s area of effect (No mater if they derive from innate special abilities, (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or actual spells). Creatures relying solely on the above mentoned special abilities are effectively blinded (Just as a human relying solely on his vision would be, if found in an area of complete light). In opposition to complete darkness and much like a blinding light, the waves affect creatures rigged with the above-mentioned sensory abilities not due to lack of input, but because the information is so much around them that they cannot discern any sort of differentiation in the environment affected by the spell. Such a creature outside of the spells area and whose abilities can reach the affected space, perceives a sphere abundant of information (just as a human looks upon a sphere of complete white light). These sort of special sensory abilities permit creatures (provided they are outside the spell’s area of effect) to detect everything else normally beyond the spell’s area, be that even behind the magical sphere (without line of sight), provided the abilities can cover the distance. Creatures caught in the spell that do not rely solely on the above-mentioned abilities can use ordinary (humanlike) senses normally, are not blinded, being only deprived of their extraordinary senses. The -1 penalty affects also all creatures with one or more of the above-mentioned abilities (Fortitude save required).
The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
Material Component: A pinch of dust comprised of sulfur, hair from a bat’s ear, a spider’s leg and a rat’s nostrils spread in the air.

[/COLOR]

love the minor effect... but think the secondary is a bit much after reading the incredible break down by the rule gods... wow

think if this was toned down so as not to blind them but to disorient them, making it harder to hit (like picking out a single conversation in a crowded room), with a simple negative to hit, it might get more usage sort of a bless/bane spell but but being arcane and using sound so it covers those other creatures... a higher version could add to the negative to hit...
but love the research and depth to which you worked on this spell

(side note: unrelated just going over books and noticed some spells got named changed by hasbro, and was curious as to why they felt the need to remove some of the famous names from the spells: Tenser ottiluke etc... anyone know?

 

[Jimlock]

love the minor effect... but think the secondary is a bit much after reading the incredible break down by the rule gods... wow

think if this was toned down so as not to blind them but to disorient them, making it harder to hit (like picking out a single conversation in a crowded room), with a simple negative to hit, it might get more usage sort of a bless/bane spell but but being arcane and using sound so it covers those other creatures... a higher version could add to the negative to hit...
but love the research and depth to which you worked on this spell

Well... the "incredible breakdown" as you call it has failed up until now to prove how this spell is more powerful (or even equally powerful... if i may) when compared to some other spells of similar levels (2nd, 3rd), especially in respect to how situational it is. (I'm not sure if you've read all the answers to the people who claim it is broken). I honestly have no intention of introducing a broken spell in my game. It has always "nudged" me how those special sensory abilities could not be countered in some effective way... so that's how i came up with the idea. IMO, your suggestion of "toning it down a bit" would render this very situational spell weaker to the point where it would not be appealing.
To be more precise... if i had chosen to unbuff their attacks by a "negative to hit" as you say, what crazy player would have chosen to use my spell instead of Stinking Cloud, which not only affects all living creatures but also negates all standard and full-round actions?
Even this "negative to hit" without a saving throw seems weaker in comparison to a spell that takes away standard actions with a save.... even if my spell affected all living creatures!

...with a "negative to hit", the spell would be just another attack-roll-unbuffer, targeted at a very very small population of the Monster Manuals. Not very interesting nor appealing IMO.

I hope I didn't sound rude here... I'm merely standing on the side of my creation...

Thanks you for your kind words on the research...

(side note: unrelated just going over books and noticed some spells got named changed by hasbro, and was curious as to why they felt the need to remove some of the famous names from the spells: Tenser ottiluke etc... anyone know?

I think i've heard/read somewhere that it was some copyright issue... not sure though...