MY BRAND NEW SPELL!!! (opinions required...)

So OK, we have a 3rd level wizard with this spell (on a scroll) vs. a Bloodfire Ooze (MM4).

The Ooze is CR 7 and is blind with 60' blindsight and poor will saves (+4).

The DC on the spell will be 15 with a 16 intelligence, meaning a save on 11 or above --> 50%.

Is it ok to give a 3rd level PC the ability to neutralize (it would still be hard to kill for a low level party) a (pretty rare) CR7 creature 50% of the time?

I don't know, maybe. But I would certainly be ok with a 5th level PC having that ability. I just don't see it as higher than 3rd level.
 

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This spell has SOME use in many situations, as noted by the penalties.

I don't believe that any reasonable/sane player is going to memorize/get this 2nd-3rd level spell so as to be able to "inflict" a -1 penalty on the enemy's rolls... after a failed fortitude saving throw too! (also ...saving throws are excluded from the penalty).

The -1 penalty was incorporated in the spell for two reasons:
1- The -1 penalty is actually supposed to count "against" the spell's power. Allied forces are gonna suffer this penalty, in case they want to engage the monster in melee.
2- The second reason is mostly about flavor... its about how an effect that hampers special senses is also gonna affect normal senses just a little as well. After i came up with the idea of those magical ultrasonic/infrasonic waves... i tried to imagine how being in such a field would be like, and how would it affect normal senses. The high pitched noise is not in my imagination. This is the actual effect such waves have to our hearing. So i concluded that the "ringing" combined with the heavy odor of sulfur could easily account for this -1 penalty.

Finally, there's no counter to this spell. There's no "True Seeing" or "See Invisibility" that negates it without also punishing the caster (again, the only thing I can think of is some form of silence spell).

Isn't there? What about Globe of Invulnerability Lesser? Dispel Magic? No need to go looking for costly 6th level spells like true seeing...
Don't forget than in case the spell isn't targeted on the monster (in which case the monster is allowed a save to negate the effect), the creature can always walk out the area of effect.

Further, you can cast this ON a creature. So that grimlock can't simply "step out of the area".

Yes, but in this case i should remind you that the Grimlock is entitled to a Will save so as to negate the effect.

I'm sorry, if this were cast on a creature that primarily used tremorsense/blindsense/etc as a means to find enemies this is effectively a death sentence.

Ok. explain me then how... Ghoul touch... an effectively 2nd lvl "save or die" spell is not a death sentence to a humanoid creature....

Or perhaps you think that a character faces less humanoids than creatures with ONLY* those special senses?

*(as in creatures without ordinary senses, creatures which are going to be effectively blinded under the effect of the spell)

Another "minor" detail: Ghoul touch might require the extra touch attack, but it turns the subject paralyzed/helpless, giving the opportunity to perform a coup-de-grace on the creature on the same round even. Being blinded is far from being helpless.
 
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I agree that ignoring hard barriers is an issue. It should ignore concealment type barriers, but not hard cover.

I think you might add it to the Bard list. What with it being a sonic effect, it's a natural.

By itself it isn't overpowered, but when combined with Invisibility it is suddenly a real kit shicker. And we all know that this one is going to get pulled out and combined exactly that way whenever the party knows that they're dealing with a Dragon.

As for, "There is no counter": Silence would shut it down nicely.

Have it add additional penalties to invisible creatures, and it has my vote.
 

So OK, we have a 3rd level wizard with this spell (on a scroll) vs. a Bloodfire Ooze (MM4).

The Ooze is CR 7 and is blind with 60' blindsight and poor will saves (+4).

The DC on the spell will be 15 with a 16 intelligence, meaning a save on 11 or above --> 50%.

Is it ok to give a 3rd level PC the ability to neutralize (it would still be hard to kill for a low level party) a (pretty rare) CR7 creature 50% of the time?

I don't know, maybe. But I would certainly be ok with a 5th level PC having that ability. I just don't see it as higher than 3rd level.

Levitate.
 
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I agree that ignoring hard barriers is an issue. It should ignore concealment type barriers, but not hard cover.

ok... i'm seriously considering of sticking to a normal emanation... even though i fail to see what you guys see so broken about it...

I think you might add it to the Bard list. What with it being a sonic effect, it's a natural.

i have not given much thought on which classes could have it yet other than Sor/Wiz... Yes Bard seems right.

By itself it isn't overpowered, but when combined with Invisibility it is suddenly a real kit shicker. And we all know that this one is going to get pulled out and combined exactly that way whenever the party knows that they're dealing with a Dragon.

Keep in mind that the save DC is gonna remain low due to spell level. So when the spell is used against some heavy CR monsters, chances of those monsters failing the save are pretty slim. Therefore, a wise use of the spell would be to cast it on a point in space so as to create a haven in which one can protect oneself from the senses of the enemy. Considering the various ways of countering the spell, as well as the possibility of being able to stay out of the affected area, i personally don't see anything broken about it.

As for, "There is no counter": Silence would shut it down nicely.

Yes. ...Even though i'm not sure whether silence should cancel the spell completely, or whether it should simply suppress it? Any ideas?


Have it add additional penalties to invisible creatures, and it has my vote.

Well... this i won't do. Once again... considering the low save DC, the counter possibilities, and the fact that the spell is very situational... well i believe that by putting some penalty on invisibility weakens the spell to the point it becomes almost useless.

This spell will find minimum use in the hands of the caster. If one also weakens it when then spells finally finds its use... well... i hope you see my point.
 
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I think the spell is fine as is, although you might be able to provide a more concise writeup (something that doesn't take a whole page or two to read through).

Concerning the Dimensional Lock comparison: ridiculous. Dimensional Lock is the ultimate defense vs. Scry-and-Die, lasts 1 day/level (which translates to more than two weeks), and shuts down some of the most powerful spells and abilities in the game with no save. At the level Dimensional Lock comes online, it takes care of a very, very great problem that is relatively common: you'll not be fighting Grimlocks at level 15, you'll be fighting stuff that teleports and plane shifts at will. Securing your study against interdimensional perps seems like an excellent use of an 8th level spell slot once every two weeks. Preventing that Marilith from 'porting out when the fight goes poorly seems like a good idea, given what it might do to you later in the day when you're not as well prepared.

Being deprived of some senses is not in the same league by a long shot. Also, you can target senses much more common, albeit with a save, at the same level. Taking away the save makes up for the circumstantiality of this spell.
 

I think the spell is fine as is, although you might be able to provide a more concise writeup (something that doesn't take a whole page or two to read through).

yeah well... i wanted the spell to abide to a certain concept/logic... I didn't want to create a spell that simply says:

"Blindsense, Blindsight, Tremorsense and Scent do not function within the confines of the spell's are of effect."

...So once i came up with the concept, i wanted to make it as explicit as possible, so as to provide both the fluff and the info that (hopefully) sheds light on the grey areas (like what happens to ordinary senses... what a creature perceives standing outside the area of effect ...why it passes through matter ...why it affects all those special senses etc etc...).

Of course, i agree that it can all be more concise. There certainly is room for improvement.

Being deprived of some senses is not in the same league by a long shot. Also, you can target senses much more common, albeit with a save, at the same level. Taking away the save makes up for the circumstantiality of this spell.

That's my thinking exactly.
 

ok here's a table so i can keep track of suggestions and tendencies...


____________LEVEL ___________CHANGES
----anest1s:-----?--------------------Make it as obscuring mist + negate senses
------Dandu:-----3--------------------None
--------Rhun:-----2--------------------None
----Visiganti:-----4 (5,6)--------------None
-------kticik:------2 (3)----------------None
--the jester:------3--------------------Change are of effect to simple emanation
-Greenfield:------? (2)----------------Change are of effect to simple emanation + penalty to invisibility
---Empirate:------2--------------------None (remove fluff)
 
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