My @!@#! Player abusing Feather Fall

[Ridley's Cohort]

I've read a load of this thread and I'm in agreeance with those who've stated "why bother with the readied action? Just use yer full round of attacks".

Certainly at middling or higher levels giving up 3, 4, or even 5 arrows is not usually a good trade for 1 arrow that might force a Concentration check the Wizard is likely to succeed at.

Readying works reasonably well at low levels, or if there are lots of mooks around.

 

[two]

Definately

Certainly at middling or higher levels giving up 3, 4, or even 5 arrows is not usually a good trade for 1 arrow that might force a Concentration check the Wizard is likely to succeed at.

Readying works reasonably well at low levels, or if there are lots of mooks around.

I agree in part. At levels, say, 10+, if you want to stop a spellcaster dead in his tracks, you can simply "ready" a "silence'" spell (to be cast when the enemy spellcaster starts to cast). (or read it from a scroll, or zap a wand of it). This stops nearly all spellcasting without a roll/save/SR/anything. Period. Unless the enemy spellcaster knows what's coming up, or is casting a silenced spell just coincidentally, it's a wonderful way to stop even a level 20 wizard. At least for one round. Next round, they might very well cast a silenced whatever (if they have one). Still, you have gained a round.

*thinking* a cohort with a wand of silence whose job is to silence (obvious) spellcasting opponents would be a nice addition to any party. *thinking*

"Readying" is also useful at high levels when you can't DO a full attack. If you must move to get the enemy into range, or just to see them, you can only shoot once anyway. Might as well make it a readied action. You aren't missing out on anything, and you might, just might, stop a spell in addition to doing damage.

The only other exception I can think of is the "huge damage 1 shot" archer. Using appropriate bane arrows and magical bows, smite capabiliteis if they work at range for the class in question, other one-shot buffs, etc. if you can get a single arrow to do 30+ damage, that will beat the concentration check of most high level wizards. That's probably worth it (4 attacks , 3 hitting, each doing 15-20, or 1 very accurate arrow doing 30+ and interrupting spells?). Most people would probably still do a full attack. But it makes sense if the archer in question can pile a bunch of bonuses/special abilities onto 1 shot, which he isn't able to do with 4 shots.

That's probably it. Pretty rare at high levels.

Poison is a good idea, however.

 

[Shadowdweller]

How many times in your game have you readied an attack for "the second spell" from a caster?

No, but then that's never been the tactic (or rather counter-tactic) I've been talking about either. What I HAVE been talking about is readying to interrupt the first 'non-swift-action spell' (eg "Count one second and THEN fire").

 

[Storyteller01]

Haven't read the whole thread yet...

Neat trick. The mage's equivalent of a combat bluff!!

I'd have to agree with targon. Have your archers vary their actions, to account for multiple spells. Not too much of a jump from targeting two or more spellcasters (niether cast their spells exactly at the same time). Just have the incident in question be 'archer 1 will fire at the first spell attempt, archer two will fire at the second spell attempt' etc.

Another tactic (if he uses Quickened spells): Since Quickened spell does add a +4 to the level, you can claim that the feat rolls Silent Spell and Still Spell together. It won't set off a spell because the caster isn't giving clues that one is cast (I play that you don't have to reach for your components to use them. They just have to be on hand).

Question for everyone: I know using bluff is a standard action, but what would keep a mage from doing the same trick with the Bluff skill (I'm casting a quickened spell...PSYCH!!)?

 

[Storyteller01]

Given your statement that this is a magic heavy world, maybe this is plausible.

Arrows with silence. Keep the readied action. Make it an area effect, so a save isn't possible. Watch him take extra damage as he remove the arrow he porvoked so he can cast his next spell...on the next round.

 

[KarinsDad]

No, but then that's never been the tactic (or rather counter-tactic) I've been talking about either. What I HAVE been talking about is readying to interrupt the first 'non-swift-action spell' (eg "Count one second and THEN fire").

And he casts his Quickened Fireball and the Archer says "Opps" as he is engulfed in flame.

This tactic is just as lame as readying a missile attack against the second spell and nearly as lame as readying a missile attack against a spell in general.

If my Wizard sees an Archer readying to fire at me (arrow notched, pointed in my general direction), I am going to move directly behind the big tank fighter to get a +4 Soft Cover AC bonus before I cast any spell. In fact, I will tend to move behind cover regardless of whether I see attackers. Just peering above a wall or around a corner is a +8 AC cover bonus.

In fact, the only real good ready action against a spell caster is another spell. For example, Fireball or Silence. Arrows are at most a nuisance, especially against intelligently run spell casters. Even if they hit, the caster often will make his Concentration check.

 

[KarinsDad]

Question for everyone: I know using bluff is a standard action, but what would keep a mage from doing the same trick with the Bluff skill (I'm casting a quickened spell...PSYCH!!)?

The fact that the Bluff skill is a standard (or full-round) action, even in combat.

The only case of bluffing which is not a standard (or full-round) action is that of sending a secret message as per speaking. This is not an action, but part of the free action of speaking.

 

[Plane Sailing]

if you want to stop a spellcaster dead in his tracks, you can simply "ready" a "silence'" spell (to be cast when the enemy spellcaster starts to cast). (or read it from a scroll, or zap a wand of it). This stops nearly all spellcasting without a roll/save/SR/anything. Period. Unless the enemy spellcaster knows what's coming up, or is casting a silenced spell just coincidentally, it's a wonderful way to stop even a level 20 wizard. At least for one round.

Mind you, if I were a 20th level wizard I certainly think that quickened minor globe of invulnerability would be in my repetoire, or possibly even contingency: globe of invulnerability to go off at the start of a melee (trigger as agreed with DM). Silence spells are big threats to casters at that level and globe of invuln. is the best way to shut that threat down and eliminate it completely. You don't have to know that Silence is coming up *right now*, but this decent defensive spell is one of the few ways you can get absolute protection against silence along with a number of other nasty spells.

- just mentioning this in case other readers of the thread hadn't considered this counter

Cheers

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The only case of bluffing which is not a standard (or full-round) action is that of sending a secret message as per speaking.

Or feinting in combat with Improved Feint feat, or the ??? Feint as part of the Invisible Blade Prestige Class, who can feint as a free action.

 

[billd91]

If my Wizard sees an Archer readying to fire at me (arrow notched, pointed in my general direction), I am going to move directly behind the big tank fighter to get a +4 Soft Cover AC bonus before I cast any spell. In fact, I will tend to move behind cover regardless of whether I see attackers. Just peering above a wall or around a corner is a +8 AC cover bonus.

Well, that's because your wizard is a big, girly wuss and not a real he-man.

A little more seriously, just because one wizard would dash behind cover doesn't mean every one would. Besides, it's not like ducking behind cover invalidates the spell-feint tactic anyway. Move action to duck behind cover + free or swift action + standard action spell is legal. It just adds a further complication for the archer.