Crimson Longinus
Legend
Sure, but some people really like dwarves.Size and temperament is insufficient to justify a separate species.
Sure, but some people really like dwarves.Size and temperament is insufficient to justify a separate species.
I am all for doubling down on the nonhuman concepts of the dwarf.Sure, but some people really like dwarves.
Y'know, I should have bet someone that this would be the first response.Not sure what this test proves. I thought the problem was lore or culture. Honestly, the physical difference between elves and humans are even less. Cherry picking some images of 2 humans that are drawn with disproportionately larger heads or something doesn't prove anything. Not that anything can be "proven" here anyways. I think at this point, this thread has just become a part of our lives that we are not willing to let go
I suspect 5e now depicts the physical variations of Elf. Which I like.Elf pics are generally pretty easy to spot. It's very, very difficult to draw an elf that looks human. And since 3e, elves have become even more distinctive.
He looks like a friend of mine!You think THAT looks human?
Without a frame of reference? Looking at them only visually without knowing anything else? Pictures by a variety of artists with different styles? Some of which (like #6) are so dark you can't see any distinguishing features? I would say #6 is unknown, #8 is a gnome because of the facial hair. But it doesn't prove anything.Y'know, I should have bet someone that this would be the first response.
Try it. Pick 10 elf pictures and one human picture and see if we can't find the human. Elf pics are generally pretty easy to spot. It's very, very difficult to draw an elf that looks human. And since 3e, elves have become even more distinctive.
But, hey, if halflings are so easy to spot, have at it. Shouldn't be difficult, after all, halflings share nothing with humans according to poster after poster. And, while elf might be hard to spot (which, honestly, I doubt) dragonborn and tieflings surely aren't. Yet, people keep telling me that all these races are indistinguishable from humans. They're just like humans.![]()
If you cannot engage with the content of my posts, please feel free not to reply.Well, points for honesty here. At least you're up front about it being about the poster and not the post. Can't really argue with that, now can I?
The Small size can help flavor a package of clearly nonhuman traits, but by itself is negligible.It is bizarre how people ignore the size like it was no big deal (pun intended.) Being half the size of most people alters things massively. Imagine if you lived in world where most things were twice the size they're now. It would feel pretty different. And visually it is definitely far greater difference than having pointy ears. (And halflings often are depicted with somewhat pointed ears too.)
Brave is kinda useful, at least when one needs it. The Fear Resistance is better than the elven Charm Resistance, in any case.As for mechanical traits, I think that lucky and brave are far bigger deals than dark vision or even breath weapon. They actually affect the psychology of the being instead of just being super powers.
Definitely not negligible. It is always present. In actual play it tends to matter much more than the long lifespan of the elves for example.The Small size can help flavor a package of clearly nonhuman traits, but by itself is negligible.
Lucky and brave work thematically well together. Both support optimistic and curious outlook. Granted, that doesn't do much with hobbity homebody halflings, and that's why I prefer kendery nomad halflings.Brave is kinda useful, at least when one needs it. The Fear Resistance is better than the elven Charm Resistance, in any case.
If I was forced to choose between Fear Resistance and Darkvision, it would be a tough choice. Darkvision sure is convenient and, situationally, can be useful for stealth.
Mechanically, Lucky is unpleasant. It is infrequent and passive without any player agency. It is not nothing. Some players might find its gambling aspect fun. At most, it is worth a good skill. By contrast, the Lucky feat is worth a feat, grants player agency in vital situations, and outclasses the Halfling Lucky.
Of all the traits that the Halfling has, I consider the Fear Resistance to be the only one with potential to explore as a nonhuman quality. But, of course, the D&D Players Handbook doesnt explore its nonhumanness. Being unusually brave around Undead and Dragon and so on, is noticeable.
The fearlessness slightly conflicts with the childlike qualities, which tend to be timid and nonconfrontational. But it can work, in the sense of children often not understanding danger. A child can walk right into a busy road, jump off a house trying to fly, or play with an electrical outlet, and stuff like that.
The Brave trait is less than enough, but it is something to work with as part of a package of nonhuman traits.
Huh, funny. I was told that it was no problem to distinguish halflings. There was no uncertainty at all. I mean, "Take away scales and breath weapon from a dragonborn and you get a human" is pretty disingenuous. "Hey, remove all the defining traits of something and it looks like something else!!!" In other news, rain is wet.
No takers at all? Really? You folks don't seem to be too confident in yourselves. I can spot a dragonborn in every picture. 5e tiefling? Not a problem. Note, several of those pics that I put back there, they're Paizo pics. So, it's not like they're some random deviantart pic. Most of those have been published, a few have not. But, where's all that confidence I saw about how halflings are easy to distinguish and share virtually nothing with humans? Not ready to put your money where your mouth is?
I feel Size and temperament are important for defining a character concept, but unimportant for justifying a separate species.Definitely not negligible. It is always present. In actual play it tends to matter much more than the long lifespan of the elves for example.
Actually, I agree in principle. Lucky and Brave could potentially work well together. But the problem is, the mechanics for Lucky kinda suck. If the player had more agency to actualize the concept of Lucky during gameplay, it would become a noticeable trait. Then, the concept of the Halfling could double down on the nonhuman aspect of this luck.Lucky and brave work thematically well together. Both support optimistic and curious outlook. Granted, that doesn't do much with hobbity homebody halflings, and that's why I prefer kendery nomad halflings.
An elf with hair that covers part of their ear does not look like a human? A dwarf does not look like a stocky person with a beard?Huh, funny. I was told that it was no problem to distinguish halflings. There was no uncertainty at all. I mean, "Take away scales and breath weapon from a dragonborn and you get a human" is pretty disingenuous. "Hey, remove all the defining traits of something and it looks like something else!!!" In other news, rain is wet.
No takers at all? Really? You folks don't seem to be too confident in yourselves. I can spot a dragonborn in every picture. 5e tiefling? Not a problem. Note, several of those pics that I put back there, they're Paizo pics. So, it's not like they're some random deviantart pic. Most of those have been published, a few have not. But, where's all that confidence I saw about how halflings are easy to distinguish and share virtually nothing with humans? Not ready to put your money where your mouth is?
I agree with this.An elf with hair that covers part of their ear does not look like a human? A dwarf does not look like a stocky person with a beard?
Without a frame of reference? Looking at them only visually without knowing anything else? Pictures by a variety of artists with different styles? Some of which (like #6) are so dark you can't see any distinguishing features? I would say #6 is unknown, #8 is a gnome because of the facial hair. But it doesn't prove anything.
Visuals, and only visuals with no context are not what distinguish the races. So what if they look like a different race if you have no scale? That's only part of what makes them different. They're half the size, have different motivations and different abilities. But yes, take away just about everything that they stand for and they're just like every other race.
But fundamentally all races in D&D are just humans with slightly different visuals. Take away a dragonborn's scales and breath weapon and voila! Human! Look at this picture, what race is it?
View attachment 141060
According to the artist, it's a dwarf female. Because they're wearing armor I guess?
So I guess dwarves are just humans, right?
If the test is to determine which of these are halflings and which are human, I have to say…Ok, so, as I understand the argument, people are saying that the primary problem with halflings is they are too close to humans. Is that fair?
So, with that in mind, I devised a little test. Below are 11 character pictures taken from various sources. 9 of them are halflings and two are not. If halflings are as distinguishable from humans as is claimed, then it should be a snap to tell which is which, right? Now, full disclaimer, I have altered the pictures to cut off everyone's feet. After all, 5e halflings aren't hairy footed, so, a hobbit picture is kinda cheating. Basically, I went down and picked a selection from r/ImaginaryHalflings . I skipped the ones that were deliberately from Tolkien and picked 11 pictures that I figured would make a fairly decent test.
So, without looking at the Reddit thread, can you find the 2 non-halflings in this picture?View attachment 141059
In short you can pick the two 4e/5e races but not the classic ones from humans once they cover their ears. Which is why some people find dragonborn and tieflings to be too exotic for their D&D.Huh, funny. I was told that it was no problem to distinguish halflings. There was no uncertainty at all. I mean, "Take away scales and breath weapon from a dragonborn and you get a human" is pretty disingenuous. "Hey, remove all the defining traits of something and it looks like something else!!!" In other news, rain is wet.
No takers at all? Really? You folks don't seem to be too confident in yourselves. I can spot a dragonborn in every picture. 5e tiefling? Not a problem.
First, who said that halflings share virtually nothing with humans? Halflings share more visually with humans than Thri-Keen do for example. So for that matter do elves. I don't think that anyone disputes this.Note, several of those pics that I put back there, they're Paizo pics. So, it's not like they're some random deviantart pic. Most of those have been published, a few have not. But, where's all that confidence I saw about how halflings are easy to distinguish and share virtually nothing with humans? Not ready to put your money where your mouth is?