D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[lall]

Apologies if folks have already mentioned this. Halflings are baby humans. If they’re boring, blame humans. Forest gnomes are baby elves, woodsy, skinny, and attractive, at least for a gnome. The other gnomes are baby dwarves, a bit on the stocky side.

 

[Iry]

Apologies if folks have already mentioned this. Halflings are baby humans. If they’re boring, blame humans. Forest gnomes are baby elves, woodsy, skinny, and attractive, at least for a gnome. The other gnomes are baby dwarves, a bit on the stocky side.

Gnome are small folk with pointed red hats. I suppose some distant gnomes could have white hats, but only if the papa still wears red.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Apologies if folks have already mentioned this. Halflings are baby humans. If they’re boring, blame humans. Forest gnomes are baby elves, woodsy, skinny, and attractive, at least for a gnome. The other gnomes are baby dwarves, a bit on the stocky side.

Adds Iall's name to The List ...

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'd hate this. I want at least some sort of WYSIWYG. Probably beyond the topic of this thread though.

I'm deeply impressed with your ability to know how much HP damage a weapon does on sight.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I'm deeply impressed with your ability to know how much HP damage a weapon does on sight.

Really? I know that I and most of my table could list the damage dice for every single weapon in the PHB and DMG (firearms and futuristic weapons), including whether or not they're finesse/versatile.

 

[Mecheon]

I guess I just don't get it.

I don't know when things like Innocence, Authenticity, Tranquility, friendship, just plain being comfortable and in harmony with one's self and surroundings became such UNheroic concepts.

They're not, unheroic concepts. Its just making an entire race that adheres just to those concepts and nothing further doesn't really make it stand out.

You can explore all of those concepts without a problem with a human and the story would be basically no different when done with a halfling. They're just too close to baseline humans to stand out, unless you're going for that sweet, sweet rogue dex bonus. Of course, the one time they leaned into 'people play this to be rogues' was Kender and, y e a h.

They are more popular, have a clearer niche of characters where they reinforce the theme, have far more long term consistency, don't have a theme that is undermined by it being the race's theme, and could easily absorb both forest and rock gnomes into their archetypes without breaking a sweat. And aren't almost completely reshuffled from edition to edition because they have more of an identity.

This is one I'm gonna disagree on.

Gnomes are the Magical Little People, and that's a ridiculously longstanding niche from mythology. Halflings are that stuck into their theme that adding gnomes in would not be a good fit at all, but ironically the looseness of the gnome theming would make it easier for them to consume the halfling niches in turn.

Gnomes could absorb the halfling niche and trappings without too much trouble, because when it really gets down to it is "Enjoy living nice life" which can easily be worked into their whole illusion/trickery thing. Halflings could not absorb the Gnome niche because its going to swing either heavy into illusions, or heavy into tinker, the one lasting gnomish niche ever since Mystara and that whole flying gnomish steampunk city they had. Its just too far from what Halflings have always tried to set themselves as.

Halflings have that problem of certain 3.5E races where they're way too narrow on a Very Specific Concept to their detriment, which is ironic given 3E was one of the ones that tried to give them a bit of a revamp

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

+2 Cha is just +1 to the roll.
Proficiency goes from+2 to +6.

D&D Elves talk diplomacy but they aren't good at it. Half Elves are.

That's part of the problem with halflings.

1. The fluff of halflings is "I am a short human."
2. The crunch of halflings is "I am a short human."
3. The filling of halflings is "I am a short human."
4. The icing of halflings is "I am a short human."
5. Humans already exist in D&D.
6. Halflings look like variant humans

When you say things like “to be honest you sound like you believe in fantasy not play in fantasy”, you’re making it personal. Making it personal is against the ENWorld ToS. So don’t do that,

 

[Mind of tempest]

You can't say that they both have and do not have a setting place.

There's also no such thing as a "race slot." You can have as many or as few races you want in any given world. The PH just includes the traditional ones, plus a few breakouts like dragonborn and tieflings. You could make a world with none of the traditional races, including no humans, if you really wanted to.


Well, maybe you need to sit down and really think about it, rather then just reacting. But some effort into it.

race slot is an abstraction, if I have dwarves orc, minotaurs and goliaths they all compete for strong guy role and clutter the setting, realistically you only need one per setting unless you know how to make them all feel super different, hence the term race slot, there are lots of things who are nearly elves in fantasy but are clearly not so elf is design to fit in a slot.

I have, I learned the answer is not in me thus I seek it, it might be because no one has thought of it yet in which case minds must be set in motion to generate the answer hence I am in this thread as either I will generate it or one of the other participants will.

They're not, unheroic concepts. Its just making an entire race that adheres just to those concepts and nothing further doesn't really make it stand out.

You can explore all of those concepts without a problem with a human and the story would be basically no different when done with a halfling. They're just too close to baseline humans to stand out, unless you're going for that sweet, sweet rogue dex bonus. Of course, the one time they leaned into 'people play this to be rogues' was Kender and, y e a h.


This is one I'm gonna disagree on.

Gnomes are the Magical Little People, and that's a ridiculously longstanding niche from mythology. Halflings are that stuck into their theme that adding gnomes in would not be a good fit at all, but ironically the looseness of the gnome theming would make it easier for them to consume the halfling niches in turn.

Gnomes could absorb the halfling niche and trappings without too much trouble, because when it really gets down to it is "Enjoy living nice life" which can easily be worked into their whole illusion/trickery thing. Halflings could not absorb the Gnome niche because its going to swing either heavy into illusions, or heavy into tinker, the one lasting gnomish niche ever since Mystara and that whole flying gnomish steampunk city they had. Its just too far from what Halflings have always tried to set themselves as.

Halflings have that problem of certain 3.5E races where they're way too narrow on a Very Specific Concept to their detriment, which is ironic given 3E was one of the ones that tried to give them a bit of a revamp

ah so my consideration that the basic function halflings have needs to be bulked up is not unreasonable, would consideration on what could be used as ideas be a good idea?

When you say things like “to be honest you sound like you believe in fantasy not play in fantasy”, you’re making it personal. Making it personal is against the ENWorld ToS. So don’t do that,

I have been getting too emotional in this thread, I am sorry and will avoid doing it again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

@Mind of tempest

A note, because you’re new- and because I once did something similar myself in my early days- and you’re apologizing, commenting on moderation in thread is actually a potential violation of site ToS. It’s preferred that you make comments on moderation to private messages.

I just wanted to clarify that so you (and others) don’t make the error again.

 

[Mecheon]

ah so my consideration that the basic function halflings have needs to be bulked up is not unreasonable, would consideration on what could be used as ideas be a good idea?

I think its moreso the problem is at the root. You change them enough to make them stand out and, they won't be Halflings any more

Halflings have been defined by being "The Regular Short Race". They can't delve into magic, because the gnomes have their hands all over that. Martial and more conflict? That's the way of the Dwarf. Unfortunately Halflings hit their niche head on but, its a very tiny niche, compared to what every other main race has. In addition, unlike gnomes or dwarves who have mythology to draw on, halflings are sort of stuck in being, well, hobbits.

As much grief as I give Dragonlance, it at least had the right idea trying something with them by going the Kender route, and there's a reason the idea of the Halfling Mafioso is a reoccuring one out there (It works really well with what they've got), but the halfling may have been doomed to be stuck in a rutt by the very niche it fills

 

[Mind of tempest]

I think its moreso the problem is at the root. You change them enough to make them stand out and, they won't be Halflings any more

Halflings have been defined by being "The Regular Short Race". They can't delve into magic, because the gnomes have their hands all over that. Martial and more conflict? That's the way of the Dwarf. Unfortunately Halflings hit their niche head on but, its a very tiny niche, compared to what every other main race has. In addition, unlike gnomes or dwarves who have mythology to draw on, halflings are sort of stuck in being, well, hobbits.

As much grief as I give Dragonlance, it at least had the right idea trying something with them by going the Kender route, and there's a reason the idea of the Halfling Mafioso is a reoccuring one out there (It works really well with what they've got), but the halfling may have been doomed to be stuck in a rutt by the very niche it fills

I think that might be part of why I dislike them, they also do not attach themselves easily to any of the big things in the settings, kobolds becoming little dragons changed them for week goblins to something with a reason and things to inspire it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think its moreso the problem is at the root. You change them enough to make them stand out and, they won't be Halflings any more

Halflings have been defined by being "The Regular Short Race". They can't delve into magic, because the gnomes have their hands all over that. Martial and more conflict? That's the way of the Dwarf. Unfortunately Halflings hit their niche head on but, its a very tiny niche, compared to what every other main race has. In addition, unlike gnomes or dwarves who have mythology to draw on, halflings are sort of stuck in being, well, hobbits.

As much grief as I give Dragonlance, it at least had the right idea trying something with them by going the Kender route, and there's a reason the idea of the Halfling Mafioso is a reoccuring one out there (It works really well with what they've got), but the halfling may have been doomed to be stuck in a rutt by the very niche it fills

Then again, I don't think 'like halflings, except with a little bit of magic' is a particularly strong niche for an entire species. Sure, as a subspecies/culture it makes sense. Gnomes could easily be a subgroup of halflings without either losing their flavour.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Then again, I don't think 'like halflings, except with a little bit of magic' is a particularly strong niche for an entire species. Sure, as a subspecies/culture it makes sense. Gnomes could easily be a subgroup of halflings without either losing their flavour.

both are pretty weak concepts they could be both subraces of something with more to work with.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

both are pretty weak concepts they could be both subraces of something with more to work with.

What's that something?

 

[Mind of tempest]

What's that something?

that I do not know, it is a hypertechnical, not a name and description but it is small human-like and has multiple adapted forms given the difference between gnomes and halflings most likely It changes with ambient energy, gnome having to do with the fae lands, a shadow fell adapted one would be all most undead but not, and so on.
would need to tie it into something bigger.

 

[Mecheon]

Then again, I don't think 'like halflings, except with a little bit of magic' is a particularly strong niche for an entire species. Sure, as a subspecies/culture it makes sense. Gnomes could easily be a subgroup of halflings without either losing their flavour.

That's not what gnomes are though.

They're the little magical people. They're the ones living in trees, with villages you walk through, talking to animals and having a far more down to earth version of handling problems than elves and their "Insert arrow into offending party" mindset. Elves shoot problems, gnomes get a bunch of animals together and solve it

Coincidentally, they're also the inventive race and are likely to have crazy nonsense which also makes them the anti-kobold, the fun inventors as opposed to the trapmakers. It took time but gnomes do have their rough niches these days that you can't pass to other folks. Can't see Halflings talking to animals or making giant, mechanical flying cities that they fly biplanes from.

To make it really thick, halflings are passive, whereas gnomes are active.

Putting gnomes in Halflings would lose so much of their flavour you'd argue why they're there, because trying to fit even the most basic gnomish things in there would be so far off what literately every halfling is doing. Putting halflings into gnomes though, and while some flavour is lost, a lot less is lost than the other way around. The gnomish idea encompasses so much more than the halfling idea and, ties back to the halfling's origins as magical little people from beneath the mounds.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That's not what gnomes are though.

As opposed to holes on the hills? Doesn't sound different.

They're the little magical people. They're the ones living in trees, with villages you walk through, talking to animals and having a far more down to earth version of handling problems than elves and their "Insert arrow into offending party" mindset. Elves shoot problems, gnomes get a bunch of animals together and solve it

Yeah, still sounds like something a halfling could do. Halflings definitely could use animal sidekicks, my favourite halfling character had a pet squirrel.

Coincidentally, they're also the inventive race and are likely to have crazy nonsense which also makes them the anti-kobold, the fun inventors as opposed to the trapmakers. It took time but gnomes do have their rough niches these days that you can't pass to other folks. Can't see Halflings talking to animals or making giant, mechanical flying cities that they fly biplanes from.

I can't see faerieish nature being that talks to animals and crazy clockwork engineer to be part of the same niche to begin with. The former could feywild influenced halflings and the latter to dwarfs to make them less one note (The dwarfs are the actual boring and pointless classic fantasy option, not the halflings!)

To make it really thick, halflings are passive, whereas gnomes are active.

Super had disagree. Halflings are not just hobbits. D&D halflings have quite a bit of kender genes, making them adventurous and inquisitive. Hell, if we want to keep the crazy clockwork mad scientists in this family, certainly it would make perfect sense for curious and fearless halflings to develop such an tradition

Putting gnomes in Halflings would lose so much of their flavour you'd argue why they're there, because trying to fit even the most basic gnomish things in there would be so far off what literately every halfling is doing. Putting halflings into gnomes though, and while some flavour is lost, a lot less is lost than the other way around. The gnomish idea encompasses so much more than the halfling idea and, ties back to the halfling's origins as magical little people from beneath the mounds.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if halflings are a subgroup of gnomes or gnomes are a subgroup of halflings. That's just nomenclature. Bottom line being that they should be the same group.

 

[Mind of tempest]

As opposed to holes on the hills? Doesn't sound different.


Yeah, still sounds like something a halfling could do. Halflings definitely could use animal sidekicks, my favourite halfling character had a pet squirrel.


I can't see faerieish nature being that talks to animals and crazy clockwork engineer to be part of the same niche to begin with. The former could feywild influenced halflings and the latter to dwarfs to make them less one note (The dwarfs are the actual boring and pointless classic fantasy option, not the halflings!)


Super had disagree. Halflings are not just hobbits. D&D halflings have quite a bit of kender genes, making them adventurous and inquisitive. Hell, if we want to keep the crazy clockwork mad scientists in this family, certainly it would make perfect sense for curious and fearless halflings to develop such an tradition


Ultimately it doesn't matter if halflings are a subgroup of gnomes or gnomes are a subgroup of halflings. That's just nomenclature. Bottom line being that they should be the same group.

hence my consideration that something bigger be made to fit the halfling and gnomes in, I would disagree with you on dwarves being the only one note race out of the classic demi-humans.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

hence my consideration that something bigger be made to fit the halfling and gnomes in,

But that’s just semantics. And I doubt they would be better received if you gave this grouping some new made up name.

I would disagree with you on dwarves being the only one note race out of the classic demi-humans.

Not only but most one note. Once you’ve seen one dwarf you’ve seen all of them.

 

[Marc_C]

I have no problem with halflings but no one plays them in my games. Only one player in 41 years actually played an halfling. I'm the only one who played a gnome (1e illusionist-thief). Dwarves have been played more since the LoTR movies. Elves, half-elves and humans have always been the most popular.