D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[Gammadoodler]

That is a really cool society, but I don't really see what it has to do with halflings in particular? Are they nomadic circus folk because of the bravery thing? Not dissing, I like it, I just want to know more about what makes it a halfling culture that leans into the mechanics

Combination of things from a mechanical perspective. I don't think bravery can be understated; these are fundamentally less fearful folk. A lot of the stuff that leads to fixed settlements ties directly to the valuation of security. But even outside that, you have racial bonuses to charisma, con, and dex and inherent luck, which is a little hard to peg to specific behavior, but which, I think, is a little easier to attach to an attitude of "we'll see what the road brings us" than the standard isolationist Hobbit stuff.

From a fluff perspective, nomadic cultures can still function very similarly to a "shire". All the "nice meals and good times", "more value in a good story than a bag of gold" stuff can still be there. The only thing that changes is they go from being intensely private to intensely public as a people. Rather than being inaccessible, they're alien. I think this approach preserves a lot of traditional halfling stuff while reducing the tension related to explaining how these folk function in the world. And it gives the worlds you use them in an alternative to "kingdoms and castles, vassals and lords" versions of civilizations.

Note that I don't think there is anything "fundamentally incompatible" with shire halflings as a concept. I just think a nomadic version of halflings works better as an expression of their mechanics and to differentiate themselves from the other races.

Like these are folk who explicitly have no real enemies or grudges who like to have a good time. I think it's cooler if these things are related causally rather than coincidentally, such that the reason they don't have enemies is because they like to have a good time and everyone knows it. Just works better for me than "they have no enemies because people kinda can't find them."

 

[FrozenNorth]

For my part, I think halflings function better as nomadic traders/circus folk.

Like the whole, pastoral, hidden village trope can exist and make sense, but it does seem to create a bit of a rift between mechanics and fluff. Like why would these brave, lucky creatures be so deeply uncurious?

I think a lot of that disconnect starts to go away once you put them on the road. Love of home and family, a passion for a good meal, and amaterialistic interests can still be touchstone motivations for them as a group, and they might also be insular in the same way that other nomadic cultures can be insular. But they can be out in the world trading stories for handicrafts, songs for sandwiches, news for gossip, serving a purpose for those they come in contact with while not posing a "threat".

I would do all that plus change their racial +2 Dex into a +2 Cha (with Lightfoots getting a +1 Dex). Suddenly, the archtypical halfling isn’t a rogue, which doesn’t really fit the fluff, but a bard.

Bards, warlocks and sorcerers make pretty natural reluctant adventurers, plus you can fit in community-focussed paladins.

 

[FrozenNorth]

If you don't find any of that compelling, and can't be inspired by someone who leaves home as a young adult to see the world before returning home to a quiet agrarian life to start a family, who has no ambitions beyond that, or someone who comes from a place wehre they feel alone in their ambitions because nearly all their kin don't experience any significant pull toward ambition, or someone who wants to be one of those but finds they are the other or even something else entirely, or someone who is pulled into adventure by loyalty or by a fierce willingness to fight for what's right and for their home and who dreams of a farm and kids and crops and pipeweed as the sun sets but deep down knows/believes she can't ever go back home, that the world has changed her into a person who can't have what she dreams of having....well, you and I are inspired by such different things that we might be best off leaving this one at, "I don't get it but you do you" and moving on.

That is inspiring, but by its nature, it is also something that lends itself better to an individual rather than a race.

To quote another webcomic,
“Wait, aren’t drow evil?”
“No, they are all Chaotic Good rebels struggling to throw off the yoke of their oppressive brethren”
“What oppressive brethren? You just said they were all Chaotic Good.”
“Details”

Also, as several people have noted, the young adult who wants to explore the world before settling down is a very, very, very common HUMAN archetype (see many YA novels), so having it as the principal halfling trait doesn’t really distinguish them from humans .

 

[FrozenNorth]

I don't mind halflings. They're pretty maleable and easy to use across all sorts of genres and tones. I don't know why people focus so much on specific lore. In my experience, you can make halflings into river people or transhumance highland sheepherders (they have big shaggy sheepdogs that they ride around on) and they still come out feeling like a recognisable variation of the same core. 5e lore may have taken them back to hobbits because 5e was, on release, the lets go back to the roots game, but it comes after Dark Sun and Kender, and 3e's take on Halflings and 4e.

Among the people who don’t like halflings AS WRITTEN, there are several opinions:

• Halfling fluff should be rewritten (either in a way consistent with existing fluff or new fluff altogether);
• Halflings should be kept as a race for those who like them, but should be replaced as a “core” race by dragonborn, tiefling or other;
• Halflings should be merged as a gnome subrace;
• Halflings should be cut as a race.

Not that several halfling proponents have suggested folding in gnomes as a halfling subrace, and have not been attacked as gnome-haters.

As concerns me, I think there are several ways to modify halfling fluff to make them more interesting, including the nomad suggestion and the sheepherder suggestion. Nonetheless, I still believe that the default fluff isn’t very good and that the race would benefit from a rewrite.

Overall, my point is that you can dislike the fluff or halflings’ position as one of the “core four” without being a halfling hater or being against the reluctant hero trope (which Luke Skywalker did better than Bilbo anyway).

 

[Sithlord]

Are you actively trying to stir the pot? Please consider using less charged language in the future.

Not really. It if you have no respect for the American military and those that serve our nation please don’t come here or leave if your are. I will give your nation the same respect. We highly respect and value those that serve our nation and have given their lift for us. Not to mention the many wounded and disabled. We don’t see them the way that piece of crap describes them. If you want to antagonizing me about those wonderful men and my beloved nations that no and many of my family i and friends served. Go right ahead.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Combination of things from a mechanical perspective. I don't think bravery can be understated; these are fundamentally less fearful folk. A lot of the stuff that leads to fixed settlements ties directly to the valuation of security. But even outside that, you have racial bonuses to charisma, con, and dex and inherent luck, which is a little hard to peg to specific behavior, but which, I think, is a little easier to attach to an attitude of "we'll see what the road brings us" than the standard isolationist Hobbit stuff.

From a fluff perspective, nomadic cultures can still function very similarly to a "shire". All the "nice meals and good times", "more value in a good story than a bag of gold" stuff can still be there. The only thing that changes is they go from being intensely private to intensely public as a people. Rather than being inaccessible, they're alien. I think this approach preserves a lot of traditional halfling stuff while reducing the tension related to explaining how these folk function in the world. And it gives the worlds you use them in an alternative to "kingdoms and castles, vassals and lords" versions of civilizations.

Note that I don't think there is anything "fundamentally incompatible" with shire halflings as a concept. I just think a nomadic version of halflings works better as an expression of their mechanics and to differentiate themselves from the other races.

Like these are folk who explicitly have no real enemies or grudges who like to have a good time. I think it's cooler if these things are related causally rather than coincidentally, such that the reason they don't have enemies is because they like to have a good time and everyone knows it. Just works better for me than "they have no enemies because people kinda can't find them."

I agree that the mordenkainen halfling lore is pretty weak, I just also don’t think it was needed. Halflings were fine in the phb.

And I like the 4e River nomad halfling, and I like you take. Great alternate halflings, I’d even be fine adding them both to the phb writeup. But shirefolk are the heart of the halfling concept, and I just don’t think there is actually a problem or contradiction or whatever in the shire halflings.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Not really. It if you have no respect for the American military and those that serve our nation please don’t come here or leave if your are. I will give your nation the same respect. We highly respect and value those that serve our nation and have given their lift for us. Not to mention the many wounded and disabled. We don’t see them the way that piece of crap describes them. If you want to antagonizing me about those wonderful men and my beloved nations that no and many of my family i and friends served. Go right ahead.

you seem overly obsessed with an occupation, with a nation just as broken as most, you assume I wish to harm them or insult them that could not be further from the truth and besides I hate every nation and why would you care it does not affect you?

also, we should return to speaking on halflings if you wish to talk more then simply message me.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Except those who like halflings as-is lose something, and those that don't like halflings as-is gain nothing. But feel free to do that in your own game!

What I find strange about this conversation is a variation on something that arises again and again. "I don't like X, therefore X shouldn't be part of the core rules." Why not have a version of D&D that allows for as wide a variety of play styles and preferences as possible?

Or to put it another way, why can't the tradition grow (ripple outward) rather than be seen as a narrow line, in which the past is forgotten or jettisoned and only the new and cool (right now) is what is focused on? Isn't that rather myopic? It doesn't mean everything must be kept, but it isn't like we're talking about were-inchworms as a race.

Because, to refer to my first post in this thread, the company isn't doing anything with halflings. Sure, they might have the occasional halfling NPC, but the lore for the race is highly lacking. I couldn't find an origin myth for halflings, they just appear fully formed in the game.

And of course, the immediate first response to that problem is "well then why don't you make lore for them to fix them, why are you advocating removing them from the game". Which first, I haven't been advocating for that. I talked about a trend of combining them with gnomes.

And the reason for that trend is that halflings are being crushed between a few, far older and more interesting concepts.

They are just short humans, so a lot of their space is possible to be taken by humans. Being short, unlikely heroes who are weak and don't have magic is a space for goblins. Being short, trickster heroes who hide underfoot and are curious about the wider world is a space for gnomes. But, beyond that, Goblins and Gnomes have even bigger spaces that they cover. They are more than those narrow ideas. Halflings meanwhile seem to be just that narrow idea.

And I think that is why the trend exists, because when people go about trying to make them more interesting as a race, they run into this problem that they are a lot like a lot of other races. They feel extraneous in a lot of ways, so they get absorbed into other categories. I know that may suck for people who like the status quo, but as things shift and move, it seems like the road we are on.

 

[Sithlord]

you seem overly obsessed with an occupation, with a nation just as broken as most, you assume I wish to harm them or insult them that could not be further from the truth and besides I hate every nation and why would you care it does not affect you?

also, we should return to speaking on halflings if you wish to talk more then simply message me.

I just wish snotty people like u would not start this stuff on boards. You definitely wouldn’t insult an ethnic group like that. Some of us give a damn about those that serve and their country.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I just wish snotty naughty words like u would not start this stuff on boards. You definitely wouldn’t insult an ethnic group like that. Some of us give a damn about those that serve and their country.

but I do care, I just lack your veneration for them.
no can we get back to the topic at hand of halflings?