My review of ETools........long post

Taliseian

First Post
Long post warning....

I've had ETools now for a bit....worked with it....slept...and thought again.

There are alot of good 3e Computer Aids out there. PCGen and Jamis Buck's Generators have helped me many times when I was stuck for ideas or needed a quick (or detailed) NPC in my campaign world.

When WotC first spoke about "Master Tools", my first thought was that we would finally have some software that would use all the rules, be customizable, and extendable. When I got my hands on "ETools" and started working with it, I felt a sense of complete disappointment.

Once of the first areas that hit me as wrong was in the "shell". If you move your mouse over the icons at the top, most Windows based programs would pop up a small Tool Tip and tell you that the guy with the Horned Helmet was the "Character Creator"...but Etools doesn't do that. Now, I'll be the first to say that this is a small point, but having that ability helps those who are starting out using the program to find their way alot easier than having to load up help or browse thru the online manual to find out which icon does what. It's a small area in the program and most programs these days allow you to turn off tool tips once you get use to the interface. It stands out as a lack of planning in the user interface.

A major problem to me was the lack of Templates. I wanted to create a special character for my party to face, but without the templates from the Monster Manual present I can't do that. That leaves out alot of variations from Dire Animals to Were-Creatures to Half Fiends to Vampires. I later found out that I would have to create this as a "race" for now by hand, til either they were added in by Fluid or someone else sat down and did this manually. Even the Dragons get hit on this, as the program only includes one Age catagory for each Dragon.....all the others you have to do yourself. Luckly, Eric Noah has done some of this, and I only found this out by browsing the Fluid Message Boards. What about those who don't have that much Internet Access or miss that one all together.....

Another issue that I've seen basically makes just about every Caster based Prestige Class useless....you can't do "+1 Spellcasting Level" to your Caster Class. The program just doesn't do it. You could add a level of your old class, but then you'd be one level higher. Most of the Caster based Prestige Classes use this to grant additional spellcasting ability without anything extra from the class. As far as I'm concerned, this is a major blunder and I can only hope that Fluid will spend the time necessary to fix this. Otherwise it makes a good portion of the splatbooks and other addons useless.

On the positive side, the databases can be modified directly using Access 2000 or a third party program that is being created on the Fluid Messageboards. Also, there is some room to add your own homebrewed material inside Etools. If this can be expanded upon and made easier to do this will help keep the program from disappearing off of hard drives. In time, it would be good if Fluid was given permission to add the splatbooks as well as material from Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Oriental Adventures.

Also, in the time I've used it Etools has not crashed to the desktop once. There are some reports of people having crashes, but they seem to be few and far between. The base program is very stable and the bugs that are listed seem to be minor database ones. I honestly expected to see bugs like that and know that in time they will be stamped out. When dealing with this much information it only makes sense to know that small errors will accidentally creep into the database.

It has taken a long time to create this program. In that time I have seen and used PCGen and it has much more functionality and costs alot less. Even taking away all the extra rule book sets that have been added to PCGen since it's release and you still have alot more that you can do with it than you can for a product that costs more.

To be honest, if I was an exectutive at Wizards or at Hasbro and someone showed me PCGen and Jamis Buck's Generators I would be embarrassed that this product went out the door.

There is a good community both here and at the Fluid Messageboards, and I feel that in time Etools will at least have some of the functionallity that I am used to in PCGen. I don't expect that this will be overnight, but eventually I may have to make a choice as to using Etools or PCGen.

For now however, Etools will be going back into its box and waiting for a few patches and some expansions before it will be back on my hard drive. It is my hope that this will be alot sooner than later.


T




=====
The World of Lyrlusa
A Dungeons and Dragons Campaign World
--no web site, yet--
=====
 

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Back in the Box??

Dude - you've voiced everything I felt.
And I took it back to my FLGS and got back my hard earned cash.
In 30+ years of tabletop gaming history, I have yet to see a Good Commercial RPG Character Generator. Master Tools was to be that tool.

I'd accept freeware that ran like E-Tools, maybe even from some start-up that had a nod from WotC. But we're talking aboout Fluid and WotC. Somebody there said "Alright - Now this is it, lets go Gold" and released ETools.

I bought a new HDTV got it home, wouldn't turn on. Now like most guys I didn't read the manual, figured it was easy, plug it in hit the on button. Hour later after getting thru the manual, trying different outlets I called the store said come this P.o.S.
I did not Open it up, I did not ask for service on it, nor did I wait for a recall on it. I said "COME GET THIS P.O.S!"
And they did, and they brought me one that worked, They apologized and slipped me $100. Store Cred.
You know why?
Of course you do.
And thats Why you oughta get your cash back, IF you're unhappy with the product, don't settle man, don't wait, no hoping.
It's why we ain't got a good one now, somebody at Fluid/WotC thought it was okay to push this drek out on us...
on me.
Somebody there thought we'd be okay with it, we'll buy and settle, and if enough of us settle then maybe we'll get an expansion for it.

I didn't settle.
And neither should you. Any of you.

Now if you liked ETools - please disregard my sober rant, It's nearly quittin time and I'll be intoxicated shortly :D

For the record - There is nothing buggy about Etools, it didn't crash on me, it made most of the CRB characters.
But there ain't a DAMN thing right about it either.
no amount of 3rd party fixing - not tweaking, customising, or modifing, fixin' is gonna make it right.
'sides then you talking about a MSAccess license...or Breakin' the law :P
 


I have also noted a few things that are rather...."annoying"

It does not let you generate NPC class characters in the Character Generator Function thus limiting its usefulness in making high level NPCs.

I also may be missing something but it also does not allow you to edit generated NPCs very much. Adding and subtracting from skills is pretty much impossible.

From my first look through it also appears to lack the ability to purchase a generic +1 sword.


And it doesn't let you designate whether a character is a PC or NPC, thus giving that character appropriate funds for purchasing equipment. I think that it might be faster to just do the characters by hand (like I do now) than to go through the effort of generating the characters in here and that altering them to my specs.


bleah.

Does anyone know how I would add a feat to the database similar to Versatile (i.e. it allows you to designate two non-class skills as class skils)?
 
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Yeah...uh-huh

Ranger REG said:

My first thought was "this dude dosen't get it" - I got my cash back, no more problems.
but then it occurred to me, nah he's right - I need to tell them about my disdain for the stunt they are pulling...
Yeah I'm going over there right now.

And I managed to cool off while I was waiting to get into their "general discussion" forum.
I also grabbed a coke from the fridge, and started THIS letter.

At this rate - I prolly got time to watch LotR again, get a little action from my honey-bunny,
a little snooze then...

LOL!
I really am still waiting for it to come back, I refreshed my browser already.
Heh!!

Hey PCGen Men - you guys need an extra developer?

clowning aside - I am showing-out because I did get my money back, where I know 2 folks want to but can not since it was opened, and THAT is not really funny...
it's a travesty.

YMMV
 

Re: Yeah...uh-huh

HexGunna said:
At this rate - I prolly got time to watch LotR again, get a little action from my honey-bunny,
a little snooze then...

Cry more?



Hey PCGen Men - you guys need an extra developer?

Oh yeah, go for it. Since you certainly relish bitching about other people's efforts, maybe you'll gain some wisdom by being on the other side of the table.
 

So it's wrong to bitch about E-Tools? Or about programs in general?

Please. The man stated an opinion, no more or less valid than yours, mine, or anyone else's. Instead of counter-bitching, why don't you constructively critique his arguments, or outright challenge them instead of this crap.

To Taliesan:
The shell problem is nothing, that's a little thing that really has no impact on the usability of the program. I do have a question about how prestige classes are done - specifically the Loremaster, since that is straight out of the DMG and does use that +1 spellcasting progression. Is the Loremaster even in the program, and couldn't you extrapolate from that how to work it with custom prestige classes?
 

Wisdom???

Thank you LightPhoenix for the assisst -
the Sm!rk-monger is prolly still a little sore from that Azz-Pipe Fragging thing I told him about earlier - aintcha Sm!rky??

I said it earlier - the software is technically solid. it does char generation, you get monster classes, no PrClasses. And you have access to MSAccess (legal or no). There's an ODBC/c++ wrapper on the DLL - that ambitious programmers can get hold of it's exported functions and at the least make a better GUI.
mine is a gripe about useability, the GUI and an expected level of quality. I wanted to like this tool.
I want my Master tools.

Sm!rk: You're right on the wisdom bit - it comes from experience, and understanding. But I am the other side of the table. I write stuff much more complex than this EVERYDAY. And when my stuff stinks - somebody lets me know about it, when it's not what my employer wanted - I hear about it. I roll out enough crap ...
well - no more guiness, big tvs, or fast cars...
I get bankrolled to deliver, to expectation, on time.
No excuses.
If it weren't for the electronic game clause in the D20 license - YOU know we'd already be using a better product, and had it a year ago.


And bud, never forget, here in the US of A, we all got the same right to bitch. But I dig passive, "please don't hurt 'em Hamma" guys like you. :)
Always entertaining - Don't ever change Sm!rk-baby!!
 

Re: Wisdom???

HexGunna said:
If it weren't for the electronic game clause in the D20 license - YOU know we'd already be using a better product, and had it a year ago.

AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!!!

I read that clause in the d20 license about 6 months into the debacle that was the Master Tools project. My thinking was that if WotC wouldn't do it right, the fan base could, and an assembled group of fans who were in the software industry could make it worth their while AND produce what the user base truly wanted.

IMHO, that clause is a fatal mistake in the d20 license. I kills any chance of having an electronic toolset for game play.

I am thouroughly convinced that eTools will be confined to the dust bin of gaming history, and looked at in a worse light than the first Core Rules CD.
 

Re: Yeah...uh-huh

HexGunna said:

My first thought was "this dude dosen't get it" - I got my cash back, no more problems.
but then it occurred to me, nah he's right - I need to tell them about my disdain for the stunt they are pulling...
Yeah I'm going over there right now.
Hehehe. You should have seen what I initially wrote but I decided to exercise restraint and deleted a very negative statement (nearly directed toward the Fluid's software designers) below that link.

There has to be a way I can test-drive the program before I can make that final buying decision. But for now, I'm avoiding it.

Sorry, Eric Noah.
 

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