My support for healer classes

[BobTheNob]

Gotta agree with Number48 here. Having played 1&2e for many years, not having a cleric was doable. Just like scrubbing the barracks showers with a toothbrush was doable.
I can't tell you how many times, when starting a new game, I heard "So...who's gonna be the cleric?"
And I LIKE clerics. I like buffing and healing the party. But I also like my cleric to be able to bust skulls with his warhammer as well.
In the playtest there was no indication, either way, if there was going to be another healer class available. If there isn't than the only people that are gonna play the cleric will be folks like me and giltonio who don't mind the role. Or the guy that gets "stuck with it" by the rest of his group.

Yep. Common experience.

Even when playing 3ed, the same question arose "Whos going to play the cleric". No-one wanted to , so one guy threw "a few levels" on his fighter. As DM, I ended up just putting more healing potions in the game to make up the gap, which I think is just a case of makeing the DM compensate for the mis-design rather than having a player do it.

That said, it isnt "in combat" healing that is the issue to me. As far as Im concerned, thats a great expression of what the cleric does! Its the recovery after the fight, when the cleric has to just hand over his potential to other players because there was not other viable alternative in the completely unexciting context of the short rest.

You know what I want to see? NWN style healing kits (or some other form of expendable style recovery) that can be used after a fight so cleric can use their spells for other purposes. 4e HS (love em or hate em) at least gave players a way to get HP back without there needing to be a "healer" nearby/

 

[Ahnehnois]

Have you played older editions? A healer was absolutely vital. You couldn't make or buy potions, so the only healing potions were ones you found. Healing through rest recovered a single hit point a day. Without a healer, you might have to go rest a week or more. Then, in every edition, there's the problem of what to do with your unconscious friend if you have no healer to get him back up on his feet.

I'm all for a D&D where nobody has to feel obligated to play something, but it will be something new.

I assume you aren't referring to 3.X games, because healing is 1/level, which doubles with an easy heal check or any number of other interventions. There were also numerous classes that could make use of the easily available wands of CLW and several other classes with healing abilities (paladin, monk, warlock).

Even if you go older, all you really needed was one or two cure spells or a dose of lay on hands, which dramatically speeding healing. This was something you could get from several different classes.

What's wrong with having to rest for a few days to be fully recovered after a battle anyway?

 

[Number48]

Not quite as bad as "who'd gonna be the cleric" is "who's gonna be the rogue." It isn't hard to find somebody who wants to be the rogue, but it is still damn annoying that the game assumes the choice because somebody has to do the trapfinding and lock opening. Come to think of it, I once played in a game with no spellcasters*. We had no idea if there was magical treasure.

*Here's a great way to frustrate a DM. 3E, Four players, four characters. A human barbarian, a dwarf barbarian, an elf barbarian and a halfling barbarian.

 

[Yora]

I had many of my best campaign with group like that. I much prefer having all characters share a team so they can all employ similar tactics together, instead of having one specialist for each thing and all players being relevant one at a time.
If everyone in the group has levels of rogue, you can make really cool infiltration adventures, which you just couldn't do if you have to drag a paladin everywhere you go. If you have a group of barbarians, druids, and rangers, it's not so fun to have a wizard or paladin with you who expect access to towns.

 

[FireLance]

What's wrong with having to rest for a few days to be fully recovered after a battle anyway?

If you thought the 15-minute workday was bad, this would give you the 15-minute workweek.

From a purely mechanical perspective, there is nothing wrong with either. However, from a story perspective, if the PCs are fighting a reactive enemy, it puts more pressure on the DM to decide what repairs and other preparations the enemy has made during the PCs' downtime. The longer the PCs rest, the more implausible it would be for them to return and find that little has changed. In addition, longer rest periods mean that tight deadlines become harder to meet.

 

[Ahnehnois]

If you thought the 15-minute workday was bad,

I didn't.

If anything, I wish players would take the time to rest more often.

this would give you the 15-minute workweek.

From a purely mechanical perspective, there is nothing wrong with either. However, from a story perspective, if the PCs are fighting a reactive enemy, it puts more pressure on the DM to decide what repairs and other preparations the enemy has made during the PCs' downtime. The longer the PCs rest, the more implausible it would be for them to return and find that little has changed. In addition, longer rest periods mean that tight deadlines become harder to meet.

I guess if you assume a dungeoncrawling style game, it is hard to repeatedly fight battles in close quarters without healing. I suppose the idea that battles would be networked in that way or that geography would even allow that kind of strategy is such an alien concept to me I don't even consider it.

In general, I wouldn't expect the PCs to fight repeated battles in a short time period on a regular basis, because that causes much bigger problems than anything associated with healing.

 

[Gort]

I must say, if they ditch 4th ed's "leader characters can heal as a minor action", they are crazy.

I very much hope healers are optional - you should be able to recover from hit-point loss in a few minutes so you can continue adventures and the story can acquire momentum.

Actually being wounded, which should be handled using a "disease" mechanic (ongoing effects, can be improved using heal skill, can deteriorate if untreated) should require skilled healing, but that can be mundane or magical or both.

I'd be fine with hitpoints automatically refilling to full after a quick breather, but characters who are dropped in a combat acquiring one or more "injuries", which apply a penalty (EG: cracked ribs - -5 to physical checks, -2 to attack) until healed, which might take days/weeks.

 

[Agamon]

I think I'm the one that brought this up, and while my first post made it sound like there was no room for healers in the next game, I agree that there should be an option for it. Some people see clerics as healers and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[gyor]

Expanding on my idea, most healing powers/spells as minor acts or immediate actions, but the ablity to use the heal skill or a class feature to power up the healing power/spell as a standard action. So you can just activate a healing power as a minor action if you wish to attack, or for those that wish to focus more on healing you can activate it with a standard action that powers it up. Powered up maybe you make a wisdom/heal check against a dc based on how seriously the character is hurt. Depending on how you roll the healing gets a bonus to hp healed, but if you roll a natural 20 you they heal all hps or remove a negative condition, healers choice. Roll a 1 and you hurt the patient.
This would make healing as interesting as dps and allow greater room for play style.
Add in healing implements and this makes healing way cooler.

 

[GM Dave]

WotC_GregB put up this post

'Wednesday, February 1 Time to Heal by Bruce Cordell
Bruce tackles the topic of clerics and healing this time around, and he follows up with a poll that allows you to provide us with feedback on what you think about this subject.'


Looks like we'll get more info in the next 24 hrs.


I look forward to getting a chance to look this over tomorrow night.


PS


Feb 2 Weapon Damage Type by Robert Schwalb


Feb 3 Racial Importance by Monte Cook


It is going to be an interesting week for mechanics discussion :>