log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E Mythic Tiamat

dave2008

Legend
Every round a 320 AOE spike seems a bit off. I get how epic it feels, but half of the point of legendary actions is to boost outgoing damage/threat without it being focused all at once, so PCs can respond to the hazard.

I guess a d10 HD character with 16 con has 160ish base HP. Add a heros feast for 11, aid for 20, 10 temporary HP, a death ward and potions of every elemental damage resistance, and they can survive a round of that spike damage. Then you just put her down before she does it twice?
I originally had it once per short rest, but that felt to weak. Maybe I should make it a recharge power. When I get more time I will check the numbers and make adjustments as needed.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


dave2008

Legend
Sorry, but this book is a let down for me. It pretty much just cements my reasons for leaving 5E if this is the direction WotC is taking it. We've had some good discussions so I am glad you like it, but it puts me one step closer...

For me, I don't want superheroes and gods slugging it out. I know a lot of players like the over-the-top style of play, but it isn't my cup of tea. So, not that there is anything wrong at all with what you're doing, but if I had a character in a party that actually had a chance to defeat your Tiamat, I'd be so bored and disappointed in the game.
o_O I thought you were being sarcastic! So hard to tell these things in this medium.

I know you have issues with 5e and are looking to leave, but it seems odd that a setting book would be the one to push you over the top. A setting book should, IMO, cater to a particular taste and it seems reasonable that a Greek-themed setting would cater to the heroic / mythic taste.

I also find it odd that you complain that they provide a mechanic to create tougher solor monsters, which is completely optional, that many people on these very forums have asked for almost since the beginning of 5e.

I'm not trying to convince you to stay or suggest your reasons (here and as stated in your thread on the subject) aren't valid. I'm just saying they are odd to me.

FYI, this Tiamat is weak sauce compared to the gods I am really making. I just did this for fun.
 

o_O I thought you were being sarcastic! So hard to tell these things in this medium.

I know you have issues with 5e and are looking to leave, but it seems odd that a setting book would be the one to push you over the top. A setting book should, IMO, cater to a particular taste and it seems reasonable that a Greek-themed setting would cater to the heroic / mythic taste.

I also find it odd that you complain that they provide a mechanic to create tougher solor monsters, which is completely optional, that many people on these very forums have asked for almost since the beginning of 5e.

I'm not trying to convince you to stay or suggest your reasons (here and as stated in your thread on the subject) aren't valid. I'm just saying they are odd to me.

FYI, this Tiamat is weak sauce compared to the gods I am really making. I just did this for fun.
When someone has already made up their mind. Convincing them otherwise is regretfully difficult.
 

dave2008

Legend
Sorry, but this book is a let down for me. It pretty much just cements my reasons for leaving 5E if this is the direction WotC is taking it. We've had some good discussions so I am glad you like it, but it puts me one step closer...

For me, I don't want superheroes and gods slugging it out. I know a lot of players like the over-the-top style of play, but it isn't my cup of tea. So, not that there is anything wrong at all with what you're doing, but if I had a character in a party that actually had a chance to defeat your Tiamat, I'd be so bored and disappointed in the game.
Also, I just wanted to clarify that I makes epic monsters for fun, I enjoy making them. This Tiamat or the monsters I've made over 5e Epic Monster Updates are much to strong for my group. I think my play style is actually closer to yours:
  • After 5+ years of playing we are only just at 16th level.
  • It is a low magic setting
  • We have only one magic user in the group
  • death is at 0 HP
  • We have slow healing recovery rules
  • We use a version of armor with DR
  • The PCs own and maintain a stronghold / lands
 

dnd4vr

Tactical Studies Rules - The Original Game Wizards
Also, I just wanted to clarify that I makes epic monsters for fun, I enjoy making them. This Tiamat or the monsters I've made over 5e Epic Monster Updates are much to strong for my group. I think my play style is actually closer to yours:
  • After 5+ years of playing we are only just at 16th level.
  • It is a low magic setting
  • We have only one magic user in the group
  • death is at 0 HP
  • We have slow healing recovery rules
  • We use a version of armor with DR
  • The PCs own and maintain a stronghold / lands
Oh, I know our styles aren't so different, which is why I can honestly say I've enjoyed our discussions.

It is just these kind of "Hey, THIS is how So-and-so could be" sort of fosters the style of play I don't find appealing. I know a lot of players enjoy just making things up, tweaking rules, etc. as part of the hobby.

But, yeah, overall I am done with it once we finished our CoS game and the one our main DM runs. Every time I pick up a book (virtually, that is) I see things that still feel missing and incomplete.

Anyway, continue to have fun with it. :) I'm glad a lot of people like what you are doing!
 

It is just these kind of "Hey, THIS is how So-and-so could be" sort of fosters the style of play I don't find appealing. I know a lot of players enjoy just making things up, tweaking rules, etc. as part of the hobby.
Here is where creativity lies. Where different visions lie. I am all for that.
 

dave2008

Legend
Oh, I know our styles aren't so different, which is why I can honestly say I've enjoyed our discussions.

It is just these kind of "Hey, THIS is how So-and-so could be" sort of fosters the style of play I don't find appealing. I know a lot of players enjoy just making things up, tweaking rules, etc. as part of the hobby.

But, yeah, overall I am done with it once we finished our CoS game and the one our main DM runs. Every time I pick up a book (virtually, that is) I see things that still feel missing and incomplete.

Anyway, continue to have fun with it. :) I'm glad a lot of people like what you are doing!
Good luck! Perhaps you said before and I don't remember, but what are you looking to play next?
 

Quartz

Adventurer
You might want to emphasise and expand on her multi-headed nature: she does not die if she loses a head - unless it's her last - but she loses 1 Legendary Action, perhaps to a minimum of 3. Perhaps heads take a Short Rest or Long rest to regenerate.
 

dave2008

Legend
You might want to emphasise and expand on her multi-headed nature: she does not die if she loses a head - unless it's her last - but she loses 1 Legendary Action, perhaps to a minimum of 3. Perhaps heads take a Short Rest or Long rest to regenerate.
I was initially trying to keep her close to the RAW version from Rise of Tiamat. However, I will keep making tweaks. I did an old schoole version of Tiamat that gave each head different spells and hit points, etc. in my 5e Epic Monster Updates. But that is several years old now.
 

For a 5 head blast, you could have everyone within 500' roll 5d6.

If they get a 1 through 5 means they are hit with breath from that head (discard duplicates).

Then they take 10d8 of each energy type of each head that hit them, save for half.

That'll be brutal, but not 320 points of damage at the end of one turn brutal.

Simulating 10000 such rolls I get this:
0 heads 1 times
1 heads 195 times
2 heads 2278 times
3 heads 5106 times
4 heads 2268 times
5 heads 152 times

so basically an average of 3 heads breathing on each person, for 30d8, or 135 damage each. Some getting 4 heads for 180, some 3, and rarely 1 or 5.

0 is possible, but exceedingly rare (requires 5 6s).

Scale the "damage per head" up or down; I'd keep it uniform, just to avoid having to count out dice as often.

This could also cost less than 5 legendary actions, but would use up every head's ability to do a legendary action.
 

dnd4vr

Tactical Studies Rules - The Original Game Wizards
Good luck! Perhaps you said before and I don't remember, but what are you looking to play next?
Thanks! Well, most of my AD&D years were with a 1E/2E hybrid. I am going to try to convince the table to give that a try. It won't be fore another 4-6 months though... I just depends on how long it takes to finish our current campaigns.

Honestly, I am torn a bit because there are a lot of elements in 5E that I do like---it just feels unfinished. I know that was by design, but I wish that had done it all and just left us to remove/revise what we don't like instead of having to make up everything to fill in the gaps.

P.S. Love the new avatar! Nice homage to the D&D cartoon! :)
 

dave2008

Legend
Thanks! Well, most of my AD&D years were with a 1E/2E hybrid. I am going to try to convince the table to give that a try. It won't be fore another 4-6 months though... I just depends on how long it takes to finish our current campaigns.

Honestly, I am torn a bit because there are a lot of elements in 5E that I do like---it just feels unfinished. I know that was by design, but I wish that had done it all and just left us to remove/revise what we don't like instead of having to make up everything to fill in the gaps.
Interesting, obviously our personal play style is less about the details than yours (for example, we don't track money at all. We don't keep track of gold or silver. Really only magic items), but we are still playing the game with a 1e mindset IMO. I know you feel a lot is missing, have you thought about giving PF2e a try? The CRB is like 600 pages. I doubt it has everything you wnat at this point, but it probably is closer than what is provided by WotC for 5e.

I assume you are not interested in 3pp content to fill the gaps?
P.S. Love the new avatar! Nice homage to the D&D cartoon! :)
Thanks! I think that is when I fell in love with Tiamat
 


Zio_the_dark

The dark one :)
Also, I just wanted to clarify that I makes epic monsters for fun, I enjoy making them. This Tiamat or the monsters I've made over 5e Epic Monster Updates are much to strong for my group. I think my play style is actually closer to yours:
Like this too, I never play high level and on the otherside just like imaginating epic foes just for the fun of it!
 

dave2008

Legend
You might want to emphasise and expand on her multi-headed nature: she does not die if she loses a head - unless it's her last - but she loses 1 Legendary Action, perhaps to a minimum of 3. Perhaps heads take a Short Rest or Long rest to regenerate.
I thought about mimicing the Mythic Kraken's 4 hearts with Tiamat's five heads. However, I realized each time you take out a head it makes her significantly weaker and basically leads to a death spiral. It did want that for my favorite dragon goddess ;)
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Maybe you could use Prismatic Spray as the template for her mythic breath attacks, or just use the spell as is, costing 2 (?) actions 1/turn ?
 

THEMNGMNT

Explorer
This is great. Tiamat is the big bad for the end of one of my campaigns, currently at 14th level. There's a good chance this will see play at my table within the next 12 months. Thanks!
 

dave2008

Legend
For a 5 head blast, you could have everyone within 500' roll 5d6.

If they get a 1 through 5 means they are hit with breath from that head (discard duplicates).

Then they take 10d8 of each energy type of each head that hit them, save for half.

That'll be brutal, but not 320 points of damage at the end of one turn brutal.

Simulating 10000 such rolls I get this:
0 heads 1 times
1 heads 195 times
2 heads 2278 times
3 heads 5106 times
4 heads 2268 times
5 heads 152 times

so basically an average of 3 heads breathing on each person, for 30d8, or 135 damage each. Some getting 4 heads for 180, some 3, and rarely 1 or 5.

0 is possible, but exceedingly rare (requires 5 6s).

Scale the "damage per head" up or down; I'd keep it uniform, just to avoid having to count out dice as often.

This could also cost less than 5 legendary actions, but would use up every head's ability to do a legendary action.
Neat idea, I will consider it when I take a closure look at the design.
 

dnd4vr

Tactical Studies Rules - The Original Game Wizards
Interesting, obviously our personal play style is less about the details than yours (for example, we don't track money at all. We don't keep track of gold or silver. Really only magic items), but we are still playing the game with a 1e mindset IMO. I know you feel a lot is missing, have you thought about giving PF2e a try? The CRB is like 600 pages. I doubt it has everything you wnat at this point, but it probably is closer than what is provided by WotC for 5e.

I assume you are not interested in 3pp content to fill the gaps?
Thanks! I think that is when I fell in love with Tiamat
It is awkward at times, stressing over the details. I've looked into PF2e a bit, but it doesn't seem right. Part of what I don't like is all the baked in features of classes in 5E, and PF2e seemed to have even more "junk" (as I liked to call it). I'm more the type of player who gets satisfaction out of what my character accomplishes than "what can I do". Maybe that doesn't make sense, but I don't want to hijack your thread any more so I'll leave it at that.

I'm not really interested in 3pp either. I never have been since I make a lot of homebrew myself. Sorry, it just strikes me as laziness on WotC's part, not cunning design, that so much is missing or unfinished. It also means that "rules" change from one group to the next because each DM can rule differently on things. Anyway, again, I'll let it go since I it's not the purpose of the thread.
 

Mythological Figures & Maleficent Monsters

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top