Need DM advice or help

[Templeton580]

Forget the Black dragons, a Gold dragon is seen acting oddsly and killing things without cause...the Gold Dragons come to deal with it.

This is what I was thinking, but I'd like to expand on the idea.

So far, the ideas you've solicited and received seem to recommend you go at this PC from a rules standpoint (i.e., if the player has found a combination of rules to make him nigh unbeatable, it is your responsibility as DM to come up with some better rules so you can sto[m]p him), or you talk to your player out-of-game.

I think you should tackle it from a role-playing perspective. Although it's hard to tell exactly what happened from your original post, the party "had an encounter" with a gold dragon, and now the Druid is using that gold dragon's form willy-nilly.

I see several possibilities:

• A Council of gold dragons show up to punish whoever has been masquerading as one of them
• The gold dragon being impersonated shows up and challenges the druid to a duel of honor
• The druid gets cursed by Bahamut for frivolously using the form and abilities of his children

...and I'm sure you could think of more.

I just think that, instead of getting fed up with it from a rules standpoint, use it as an opportunity for role-playing.

 

[MoonZar]

Ok, good point. I didn't mean to suggest that the dragons wouldn't bother, only that the DM should approach figuring out their actions based on their natures (as you say, taking into account their pride) rather than the DM deciding *first* that he wants to stop the PC from using some ability, and then having the PCs behave in such a way to achieve that result.

If there is a group of gold dragons that have noticed the PC, then why haven't a number of neutral and evil creatures done the same thing? One would assume, that since gold dragons don't rule the world, that these other groups are of equivalent power to balance out the gold dragons. So you've got all these other factions in the world that can challenge the group of gold dragons. So what's the problem with challenging the 19th level PC?

Yeah i didn't intent to use the gold dragon without some logic behind it.

I agree, i was also suggesting a group of evil black dragon that have notice the gold dragon killing monster in their territory, the group are currently in a swamp so this fit nicely.

 

[monboesen]

You could also explain your players that the D&D polymorph/shapechange/wildshape rules despite tons of revision are still a bunch of crap and either replace them or flat out remove them from the game.

As for replacing I think this guy has made some sensible and workable rules, Follow the link to read them.

http://www.giantitp.com/Func0012.html

 

[gizmo33]

I see several possibilities:

• A Council of gold dragons show up to punish whoever has been masquerading as one of them
• The gold dragon being impersonated shows up and challenges the druid to a duel of honor
• The druid gets cursed by Bahamut for frivolously using the form and abilities of his children

...and I'm sure you could think of more.

I just think that, instead of getting fed up with it from a rules standpoint, use it as an opportunity for role-playing.

I call that metagaming, not role-playing. The DM is having super-powerful creatures challenge the PC because he doesn't like the stuff that the PC is doing in the game. Seriously - who suggested that a 19th level druid would be using any form "frivilously", and wouldn't Bahamut's opinion on that subject be unfairly biased by the fact that the DM doesn't like what the *player* is doing? The players are going to quickly figure out that the NPCs in the campaign world are just mouth-pieces of the DM and I really think that part of the charm of the game is lost.

Besides, IMO in a real campaign Bahamut would not curse a 19th level druid without having to deal with the druid's patrons - supposedly of equivalent level at least (unless good dragons rule the world). The 19th level druid supposedly got to 19th level by being a pretty darn capable druid with the support of his pantheon/superiors. (Then again, this is 3E so he probably was just 1st level last week). And again, fairly judging this situation would require that you not have it out for the player to begin with.

Bottom line IMO - don't try to fix rules problems with metagaming disguised as role playing.

 

[gizmo33]

I agree, i was also suggesting a group of evil black dragon that have notice the gold dragon killing monster in their territory, the group are currently in a swamp so this fit nicely.

That sounds like a great idea. In fact, if you want, why confine creatures reactions to just a particular region? At some point the actions of high level characters will be noticed by powerful beings outside the region. If your party goes up to Mount Olympus and kills Zeus, it's not just the other creatures on Mount Olympus that will notice.

At some point demons, devils, and demi-gods that don't even live in the same dimension as the PCs might start noticing that their underlings are all being killed off by some gold dragon. Not only would this inspire the gold dragons to take an interest in this, as you suggest, but higher level beings, who might themselves ally with the black dragon group that lives in the area. After all, if the Princes of the Abyss allow the druid to destroy the black dragons, who is to say that the druid won't come after them next? Hmmm. It's almost as if we're developing a "high level campaign." Hmmm.

 

[lordvorlek]

Ok everyone, thank you for alllllll the advice.
I did find the errata on Wizards web sight. It seems i have an old Players Handbook 3.5.
The errata says he can only change up to your caster level in hit dice up to maximum of 25 hit dice. Biiiiigggggg difference. I am using alot of all your ideas tonight on our game. So again, thank you all for your imput,,, (seems the uber character was cheatin again,, but this time he didn't know he was).

 

[MoonZar]

Ok everyone, thank you for alllllll the advice.
I did find the errata on Wizards web sight. It seems i have an old Players Handbook 3.5.
The errata says he can only change up to your caster level in hit dice up to maximum of 25 hit dice. Biiiiigggggg difference. I am using alot of all your ideas tonight on our game. So again, thank you all for your imput,,, (seems the uber character was cheatin again,, but this time he didn't know he was).

Doh hehehehe the answer was under our nose... too bad then good luck !

 

[weinerdog]

How about a real Gold dragon who is angry about the reputation he is (falsely) earning in the region? Perhaps he is looking for a mate and spots the druid, and hey baby... hows about coming back to my cave. Hows about a message from the local druid's council. "Hey Jackass. quit upsetting the balance in the area." How bouta curse. a disease, a strange magical storm. enervate him. acouple of cr30 monsters. Have him loose his jade circlet material component. you good luck finding jade in a swamp. If your players want to get nasty. Get Nastier.

 

[Templeton580]

I call that metagaming, not role-playing.

It isn't metagaming.

It's using the situation as a way to spark a new storyline, rather than getting fed up, posting on EN World that your druid has gone wild, and soliciting builds that will take him down a notch (which, IMO, leads to an antagonistic relationship between DM and Players).

The DM is having super-powerful creatures challenge the PC because he doesn't like the stuff that the PC is doing in the game. Seriously - who suggested that a 19th level druid would be using any form "frivilously", and wouldn't Bahamut's opinion on that subject be unfairly biased by the fact that the DM doesn't like what the *player* is doing?

You completely contradict yourself here. First you say that the "DM is having super-powerful creatures challenge the PC because he doesn't like the stuff that the PC is doing in the game," but then you say that having a gold dragon show up to find out who's been impersonating gold dragons would be "unfairly biased by the fact that the DM doesn't like what the *player* is doing". There's absolutely no difference between the two.

Aren't the DM and the player sitting at a table together, taking on roles in a fantasy game? Playing parts in a fantasy, so to speak? How is it metagaming for one person to take on roles, based on actions taken *in-game* by another person?

My suggestions were meant to spark new storylines, not give the DM an opportunity to use a "mouthpiece" to summarily bust down the PC for what the player is doing. The first half of my post (which you may not have noticed) was attempting to make that clear.

EDIT: If the issue is solely with misread spell descriptions, that's a whole different bullette.

 

[MoonZar]

How about a real Gold dragon who is angry about the reputation he is (falsely) earning in the region? Perhaps he is looking for a mate and spots the druid, and hey baby... hows about coming back to my cave. Hows about a message from the local druid's council. "Hey Jackass. quit upsetting the balance in the area." How bouta curse. a disease, a strange magical storm. enervate him. acouple of cr30 monsters. Have him loose his jade circlet material component. you good luck finding jade in a swamp. If your players want to get nasty. Get Nastier.

We already suggested something like this Read the other suggestions we did.