Need some clarification on Scribe Scroll

[Kalendraf]

I have a couple players in my campaign that want to scribe some scrolls. That's great. My problem is that I'm not exactly sure about all the minor details, and I haven't found the exact answers in my search thru the PHB and DMG. Here's what I'm trying to figure out:

1. The book indicates you can scribe 1000 gp worth of scrolls per day. Suppose you have a 1st level wizard with the normal number of spells (3 0-level, 2 1st level). I suspect he can scribe a scroll using all of his spells, but then he'd be effectively done since he'd be out of spells, and need to sleep to memorize more. However, if he were to sleep 8 hours and re-learn spells, could he then continue scribing for that day since they haven't exhausted their 1000gp per day limit? My thought is no, likely ruling that you can only sleep and learn 1 time per day, but I'm not sure. This might border on house rules regarding spell/sleep time for different campaigns. So far we've never had any characters try to sleep mid-day to recover spells. And I'm not sure about the 3E rules regarding that.

2. How many spells or spell levels are the maximum you can scribe onto a single scroll?

3. Suppose a wizard wants to add more spells to an existing scroll. Can he take days off in between scribing sessions and then when he scribes new spells, append them to an existing scroll?

4. According to the DMG, the chance for items being cursed should be about 5%. I assume this includes scrolls. So any spell scribed has a 5% chance of getting mucked up and becoming cursed. I'm open to that happening, making the game more interesting and making scroll-scribing not entirely fool-proof. What are the other DM's thoughts on this?

5. It seems like there's a potential money-engine in the scribing of scrolls and then selling them. Have any DM's run into this problem, and if so, how did you solve it? Obviously, if you allow cursed items, and the wizard sells one to an unsuspecting buyer, he might demand some compensation, which could easily wipe out any profits they've made.

Thanks in advance

 

[kreynolds]

4. According to the DMG, the chance for items being cursed should be about 5%. I assume this includes scrolls. So any spell scribed has a 5% chance of getting mucked up and becoming cursed. I'm open to that happening, making the game more interesting and making scroll-scribing not entirely fool-proof. What are the other DM's thoughts on this?

As far as I know, this applies only to treasure that is rolled up by the DM, not items that are created.

 

[Caliban]

I have a couple players in my campaign that want to scribe some scrolls. That's great. My problem is that I'm not exactly sure about all the minor details, and I haven't found the exact answers in my search thru the PHB and DMG. Here's what I'm trying to figure out:

1. The book indicates you can scribe 1000 gp worth of scrolls per day.

Not quite. What the book says is that scribing a scroll takes 1 day per 1,000 gp in it's base price, not 1,000 gp worth of scrolls per day. There is a difference.

Suppose you have a 1st level wizard with the normal number of spells (3 0-level, 2 1st level). I suspect he can scribe a scroll using all of his spells, but then he'd be effectively done since he'd be out of spells, and need to sleep to memorize more. However, if he were to sleep 8 hours and re-learn spells, could he then continue scribing for that day since they haven't exhausted their 1000gp per day limit? My thought is no, likely ruling that you can only sleep and learn 1 time per day, but I'm not sure. This might border on house rules regarding spell/sleep time for different campaigns. So far we've never had any characters try to sleep mid-day to recover spells. And I'm not sure about the 3E rules regarding that.

From the SRD:

The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires one day per 1,000 gp in the item’s base price, with a minimum of at least one day. Potions are an exception to this rule; they always take just one day to brew. The caster is assumed to work for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer. A character can only work on one item at a time. He can do nothing else while working. During rest periods, he can engage in light activity such as talking or walking but cannot fight, cast spells, use magic items, conduct research, or perform any other physically or mentally demanding task. The caster can take a short break from working (for naps and the like) as often as he likes, so long as he spends at least 8 hours out of every 24 working on the item. He cannot take a day off: Once the process has started, he must see it through to the end or admit defeat. If the caster is disturbed while making the item, or spends less than 8 hours working in any period of 24 hours, the process is ruined. All materials used and XP spent are wasted.

This applies to scrolls as well: Scribing one spell onto a scroll prevents you from working on another item for at least 8 hours (even if you finish scribing it before then), and you can only spend 8 hours a day creating magic items.

While the PHB and DMG refer to a "scroll" and the DMG allow scrolls with multiple spells, I'm fairly sure that for the purposes of item creation, it's supposed to be one spell scribed onto a scroll per day. Otherwise you get things like a cleric scribing 40 "cure light wound" spells onto a single scroll at caster level 1 for 500 gp in a single day. Or a wizard doing the same thing with True Strike, or any other 1st level spell that can be annoying/broken if cast dozens of times a day.

2. How many spells or spell levels are the maximum you can scribe onto a single scroll?

No official limit. Just tell the player to keep it reasonable. (i.e. 5 or less spells on a scroll, or something similar.)

3. Suppose a wizard wants to add more spells to an existing scroll. Can he take days off in between scribing sessions and then when he scribes new spells, append them to an existing scroll?

Sure.

4. According to the DMG, the chance for items being cursed should be about 5%. I assume this includes scrolls. So any spell scribed has a 5% chance of getting mucked up and becoming cursed. I'm open to that happening, making the game more interesting and making scroll-scribing not entirely fool-proof. What are the other DM's thoughts on this?

I believe that the DMG says that the chance of found item being cursed is 5%, not that creating an item as a 5% chance of producing a cursed item. Under normal cirumstances, you always get exactly the item you intend to create.

Causing a character to pay XP, time and gold only to find out the item is cursed doesn't strike me as very fun.

5. It seems like there's a potential money-engine in the scribing of scrolls and then selling them. Have any DM's run into this problem, and if so, how did you solve it? Obviously, if you allow cursed items, and the wizard sells one to an unsuspecting buyer, he might demand some compensation, which could easily wipe out any profits they've made.

Thanks in advance

There's only so much money available in any area, and the only people able to use scrolls are other arcane casters: Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards. Other wizards can scribe their own scrolls, so they would only purchase spells they don't have in their spellbooks.

Bards and sorcers would be willing to purchase scrolls for spells they don't "know", but might want to cast.

However, there are only so many sorcerers and bards in a given area, and they only have so much money. Once the wizard has sold enough scrolls to diminish the available gold in an area, he won't be able to sell any more until his customers generate more cash. So just decide ahead of time how much gold you want him to be able to make, and spread it between a few bard's, sorcerer's and wizards in the area.

If they seems to want to set up shop and just generate cash, roleplay each sales transaction. After selling 5 or 6 scrolls to 4 different customers, he will probably lose interest in being a shopkeeper...

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

3. Suppose a wizard wants to add more spells to an existing scroll. Can he take days off in between scribing sessions and then when he scribes new spells, append them to an existing scroll?

like caliban said: sure. however, i would try to also keep this reasonable. remember, scrolls don't have and infinite writing surface. if someone creates a scroll with a single spell on it, chances are they scribed that one spell to fit the entire page (this is just my opinion, though. how much space do scroll-scribed spells take up?).

 

[Aaron2]

Scroll Making

I let my characters create a single scroll worth 1000 gp per day. There may be several spells on it. So far it hasn't been an issue. If a character can create a scroll with 40 spells on it, he has to have 40 spell slots which mean he's at least 13th level. I'm not really worried about a 13th level character casting too many Cure Light Wounds (since he already has a wand of CLW or a wand of True Strike anyway because its cheaper).


Aaron

 

[StealthyMark]

5. It seems like there's a potential money-engine in the scribing of scrolls and then selling them. Have any DM's run into this problem, and if so, how did you solve it? Obviously, if you allow cursed items, and the wizard sells one to an unsuspecting buyer, he might demand some compensation, which could easily wipe out any profits they've made.

Remember, PCs sell items at half market price (PHB, page 96). And it costs half market price to create, for example a scroll, in the first place. See, no money-making possible.

 

[kreynolds]

Remember, PCs sell items at half market price (PHB, page 96). And it costs half market price to create, for example a scroll, in the first place. See, no money-making possible.

IIRC, that only applies when you are selling loot.

 

[Kalendraf]

Selling scrolls

Remember, PCs sell items at half market price (PHB, page 96). And it costs half market price to create, for example a scroll, in the first place. See, no money-making possible.

If the wizard tried to sell his crafted scroll to a shop, then yes, he would only command half price. But if he found a would-be buyer on the street, he'd be able to sell it for quite a bit more than half-price, mostly likely in the vicinity of 3/4's price with normal haggling.

And if the wizard actually ran his own shop which could be nothing more than a wagon that he sets up on the street as he travels town to town, it's possible he could develop a reputation and command an even higher price, say 90% of list. And if it was a permanent establishment for his shop, he should be able to sell them for full price.

But that of course would mean that the character is running a business which is probably a lot more tedious than most players would want to deal with.
Of course, the players I have might be just willing to do it to make money. These guys are really some money-grubbers. You'd think they were all rogues

 

[Kalendraf]

Regarding the chance for curse (or flaw) on item creation

believe that the DMG says that the chance of found item being cursed is 5%, not that creating an item as a 5% chance of producing a cursed item. Under normal cirumstances, you always get exactly the item you intend to create.

Causing a character to pay XP, time and gold only to find out the item is cursed doesn't strike me as very fun.

I seem to recall reading something in the DMG in the item creation or cursed item sections that basically stated that accidents happen, no matter how much you try to avoid them. Cosmic rays, alignment of magic fields and the like can cause just about any item creation process to go haywire once in a while. I can't think of any reason why a PC should be immune to this problem while an NPC is not. In fact, since the PC probably does item creation less frequently than some NPC's, they should be even more prone to making errors since they lack real experience in performing item creation, or their skills are rusty if nothing else.

Thus, I see no problem in having items created by PC's having a chance to be cursed. The chance of this happening is after all only 5%. It's not like I'm trying to be a heartless DM on this. Maybe I'm lumping "flawed" and "cursed" together here. My idea is that maybe a messed up scroll only works in a specific situation, or possibly it has some other side effect, etc. The effect of a screwed up scroll isn't necessarily going to be harmful, but possibly quite humorous. And with only a 5% chance of this happening, my group is still going to craft items, but I doubt they'll go overboard. Seems like a good balancing mechanism to me.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Regarding the chance for curse (or flaw) on item creation

I seem to recall reading something in the DMG in the item creation or cursed item sections that basically stated that accidents happen, no matter how much you try to avoid them. Cosmic rays, alignment of magic fields and the like can cause just about any item creation process to go haywire once in a while. I can't think of any reason why a PC should be immune to this problem while an NPC is not. In fact, since the PC probably does item creation less frequently than some NPC's, they should be even more prone to making errors since they lack real experience in performing item creation, or their skills are rusty if nothing else.

Nope. It only applies to found treasure. And as for Cosmic Rays, I have NO idea what you're talking about. Let us know if you find it in the books.