Need some clarification on Scribe Scroll

[Petrosian]

IMO having the 5% failure to cursed item rate apply to manufactured items makes sense to me. After all, FOUND items were MADE items at one point. It seems silly to think that a Wiz-3 potion making PC with brew potions after mods is UNABLE to screw up a potion of spider climb but the 17th level NPC wizard brew potion cannot because he is a PC vs an NPC.

One of the themes of DND3e was to make things the same for PC and NPC right?

However, given the way the rules are written and the ambiguity as to whether they should directly apply, i would definitely make this known BEFORE anyone takes an item feat or begins a character whose concept is item maker. If this did occur in the middile of things, I would simply say "not worth a change" and let it slide. (If a GM did not want to be that lenient he should allow the character to change if the 5% is too much hassle for him to want to continue the character. Thats the minimum i would expect.)

Meanwhile, i will note that not all the curses are lethal or item killers. The will save 15 or drop wisdom type things can simply be flavor. In my game a found ioun stone for dex +2 has a curse/flaw and requires a will save each time its activated or take 1 point of wisdom damage. its still used regularly by the sorcerer.

Other curses like "has completely different effects" might even be beneficial.

 

[Kalendraf]

Flawed vs. Cursed

I think there's a huge difference between what most players consider "cursed" vs. one they consider "flawed". The same section in the DMG covers both of them. My take on it is that a flawed item is almost as good as a normal one, but it has some glitch. For example, it only works part of the time, or it requires the user to have some pre-requisite stat, etc. A cursed item would be more along the lines of something malicious that was intentionally created to harm the user.

My idea is to have the chance of failure in item creation lead to a flawed item, not these more malicious cursed ones.

As for using this in my campaign, my players seem open to this idea of the 1 or 2 percent chance of a flawed item getting created. I'm not intending this as a way to screw the party, but rather as a way of reinforcing the idea that magic is a rather wild and uncontrollable phenomenon that even the best of wizards don't always harness correctly.

Some of the replies make this sound like I'm trying to be cruel here. I'm not. Suppose your wizard made an item which turned out to have a subtle flaw, such as only functioning in above freezing temperatures. Would you be that upset about it? I guess if your campaign was based in an arctic climate you might be, but suppose you were based in a tropical one. Your item would probably work 99% of the time. And only when you eventually journey into a colder climate or encounter some magical form of cold that it would show up. That doesn't seem like a big problem, and certainly not something that most players would get overly upset about.

 

[kreynolds]

Or would you complain when your rogue uses 'use magic device' and fails but spend a charge? Or when you craft a mw item and fail your roll? Or try to identify something and learn that the item only had those illusionary magic aura's?

Madfox, I wouldn’t feel the need to complain about those situations because they are fully supported within the 3rd Edition rules, so I expect them to be in place. However, for a DM to have a “secret” rule that you “might” create a cursed item is just lame. House Rules should be clear and concise. If you join a game that has house rules, the DM should inform you as to what they are. Naturally, if a player has read the PH and the DMG to learn how to create magic items, then they expect their items will be created as such. I just don’t happen to like that house rule. That’s all.

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Madfox, I wouldn’t feel the need to complain about those situations because they are fully supported within the 3rd Edition rules, so I expect them to be in place. However, for a DM to have a “secret” rule that you “might” create a cursed item is just lame. House Rules should be clear and concise. If you join a game that has house rules, the DM should inform you as to what they are. Naturally, if a player has read the PH and the DMG to learn how to create magic items, then they expect their items will be created as such. I just don’t happen to like that house rule. That’s all.

Secret rule??? House rule??? Have you read the DMG or the post from kalendraf?

In the process of crafting a magic item, (no mention of rolled magic items or whatsoever) so many delicate factors have to be taken into account that occasionally things are bound to go awry.

Sometimes, life sucks. You loose a level, you die... It is the same with magic items. you create one, something goes awry and POOF! Cursed (or malfunctioning) magic item.

I don't think there is a need for the DM to specify every rule to a player. I wouldn't let a player know what are the chances that he doesn't get what he thought he would get. The rules about magic items are in the DMG and players should not (in a perfect world, I am aware that it is not the way it goes IRL) play according to information their character have no chances to know. Anyways, if a player read the DMG and PH on Magic items creation, he will be aware of this rule since it is mentionned (as the quote above proves).

Of course, as a DM, it is important for me that my players have fun. But having fun is not getting everything you want the way you want it. The element of surprise and the unexpected are an inherent part of having fun (in my dream campaign anyways).

just my 2cp

 

[kreynolds]

Secret rule??? House rule??? Have you read the DMG or the post from kalendraf?

In the process of crafting a magic item, (no mention of rolled magic items or whatsoever) so many delicate factors have to be taken into account that occasionally things are bound to go awry.

Sometimes, life sucks. You loose a level, you die... It is the same with magic items. you create one, something goes awry and POOF! Cursed (or malfunctioning) magic item.

I don't think there is a need for the DM to specify every rule to a player. I wouldn't let a player know what are the chances that he doesn't get what he thought he would get. The rules about magic items are in the DMG and players should not (in a perfect world, I am aware that it is not the way it goes IRL) play according to information their character have no chances to know. Anyways, if a player read the DMG and PH on Magic items creation, he will be aware of this rule since it is mentionned (as the quote above proves).

Of course, as a DM, it is important for me that my players have fun. But having fun is not getting everything you want the way you want it. The element of surprise and the unexpected are an inherent part of having fun (in my dream campaign anyways).

just my 2cp

Once again, the 5% chance of getting a cursed item ONLY APPLIES WHEN YOU ARE ROLLING FOR TREASURE. Anything else is a house rule. How hard is this to understand?

 

[Antikinesis]

Secret rule??? House rule??? Have you read the DMG or the post from kalendraf?

In the process of crafting a magic item, (no mention of rolled magic items or whatsoever) so many delicate factors have to be taken into account that occasionally things are bound to go awry.

No mention of rolled items? Did you happen to check which section of the DMG you're reading? The section on magic item creation has nothing about the player not getting what they're making.

Sometimes, life sucks. You loose a level, you die... It is the same with magic items. you create one, something goes awry and POOF! Cursed (or malfunctioning) magic item.

A perfectly legitimate house rule.

I don't think there is a need for the DM to specify every rule to a player. I wouldn't let a player know what are the chances that he doesn't get what he thought he would get. The rules about magic items are in the DMG and players should not (in a perfect world, I am aware that it is not the way it goes IRL) play according to information their character have no chances to know.

Taking the item creation feat is what gives them the knowledge for creating magic items.

Anyways, if a player read the DMG and PH on Magic items creation, he will be aware of this rule since it is mentionned (as the quote above proves).

This so-called "rule" is being taken out-of-context. There is no rule in the books calling for PC item creation delivering unexpected results.

Of course, as a DM, it is important for me that my players have fun. But having fun is not getting everything you want the way you want it. The element of surprise and the unexpected are an inherent part of having fun (in my dream campaign anyways).

Surprising the players with secret house rules might be quite fun. . . for the DM.

If you want an in-game explanation... perhaps the "rolled" items were created by NPC's who lacked the proper feats or training... or perhaps they took shortcuts, or had some unknown agenda when making the cursed items. I like the house rule mentioned above where players could take shortcuts and incur the risk of a mishap... cool idea. I think another interesting twist, in the interest of game balance, is the possibility of a player getting more than they expected when crafting an item. If you're gonna penalize 'em with a risk of being cursed, that oughtta be balanced by a risk of being blessed (so-to-speak... not the "bless" spell). It wouldn't be too hard to come up with results that are opposite the effects listed in the item curses table.

- AK

 

[kreynolds]

Antikinesis, I love the sig, dude. I gotta remember that one.

 

[Antikinesis]

Not entirely on-topic. Actually, not-at-all on-topic.

Antikinesis, I love the sig, dude. I gotta remember that one.

Thanks, Not-Sean. Wish I could claim credit for it, 'cuz I like it, too. Just spreadin' the word.

So how's things over there in Useless, Tx, neighbor?

-AK

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Not entirely on-topic. Actually, not-at-all on-topic.

So how's things over there in Useless, Tx, neighbor?

Well hell, boy! Thare jus' fine, ya hick!

 

[Tar-Edhel]

Antikinesis, I agree with you and Kreynolds about the 5%. This percentage is for rolled magic items. But the quote I refered to (first quoted by Kalendraf) is under Cursed Items, sub-section of Handling Magic Items (pretty much in context IMO). We are not talking about rolling for items yet, just explaining the basics about magic items.

So when creating a magic item it is possible that something goes wrong and that the item becomes cursed. There is no other way I can understand the passage taken on p.177-178. The problem is they never mentioned what happened with items created by the PCs. They just go on mentioning that 5% chance for randomly rolled items.

The house rule would be to try to give a percentage for crafting a cursed item by mistake. But I think the rules already mention that the possibility is there and it should be 5% or less. And taking a feat should never give the character the exact chances of failure. Taking an item creation feat should let you know that it is possible that you mess up though.

I think it's a hole in the rules... I am not saying that the 5% fumble was intended by the game designers but they did say that there was a possibility of mishaps when creating an item.

Maybe someone should email this to the sage?