Need some clarification on Scribe Scroll

[Kalendraf]

Re: Re: Regarding the chance for curse (or flaw) on item creation

Nope. It only applies to found treasure. And as for Cosmic Rays, I have NO idea what you're talking about. Let us know if you find it in the books.

If that is true, then the logical implication would be that the only way a cursed (or flawed) item could be created is intentionally. Either that, or PC's are given some godly ability when creating items that sets them above other NPC's. Personally, I don't like either of those options.

I'll look for the info I'm referring too when I get home. I'm sure it's in the DM's guide. The "cosmic rays" term is my interpretation of what it said, but I'm sure there is something there explaining how and why unintentionally flawed (and possibly cursed) items occur. And from what I remember reading, there was nothing there to make PC's immune to this occuring during their own scribe and craft attempts either.

 

[Caliban]

Unfortunately I don't have my DMG with me, but I'm 99% certain that under normal cirumstances you won't create a cursed item unless you intend too.

Apparently there are some evil mages out there with too much time on their hands.

However, I can easily imagine unusual circumstances that could cause the magic to be twisted as they create the item, or that can cause an item to become cursed at some point. (In my home campaign, I allow characters to use a variant on "Power Components" to reduce the XP cost of creating an item, but it less reliable than the normal method, and has a chance of creating cursed items, or items that don't do what you intended.)

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Regarding the chance for curse (or flaw) on item creation

If that is true, then the logical implication would be that the only way a cursed (or flawed) item could be created is intentionally.

Exactly. Cursed items are either created intentionally, or they are given to you in treasure by punk DMs. Just kidding. I do it to my players too.

 

[Kalendraf]

Cursed item section

Here's the section in the DM's guide I was referring to. It's found on pg 231 under the Cursed Items section:

In the process of crafting a magic item, so many delicate factors have to be taken into account that occasionally things are bound to go awry. These small errors are often readily apparent and usually show up immediately. Sometimes, however, they are more subtle and don't emerge until days, months or even years later.

Other factors can make a magic item go wrong as well - things not the faulter of its creator in any way. The forces of chaos and general entropy can cause magic to decay or become corrupted.

This was the "cosmic ray" angle that I was referring too. Nothing in this section specifically states that items produced by PC's are immune to this. Thus, I concluded that every crafted item or scribed scroll must have some small chance of being "corrupted" making it a cursed or flawed item.

Clearly, the percentage for this accidental method to occur is lower than 5%. I base the reasoning for this on the fact that some number of cursed items are produced intentionally. What we don't know is the ratio between accidental vs. intentional cursed items. The only primary evidence we have to go off of is the item's function.

It seems reasonable that an intentionally cursed item would Delude the user, Have an opposite effect or be a specifically cursed item. Items that merely have flaws such as being intermittent, have a requirement, drawback or other effect are more likely to be the ones produced thru accidents. From table 8-38, it appears that the Delusion, opposite effect and specific cursed items comprise a total of 45% of the possible curses. Some of the drawbacks are likely intended curses (change alignment, change race, etc) which probably brings that number up closer to 50% perhaps even a bit over that. But for now lets assume about 50%.

So if roughly half of the cursed items that exist are intentional and the other half are accidental, that would mean that accidental flawed items are produced about 2.5% of the time.

Personally, I don't see a problem with this. However, I'll probably give the PC's the benefit of the doubt and lower that number even further - probably down to 1 or 2 percent. But this chance for producing a flawed item definitely exists as stated by this section of the DMG, and I'm going to implement it that way into my campaign.

If someone can point me to a specific piece of text that says PC's can never be effected by this flawed item chance, let me know. IMHO, such a statement should be listed here in this very section of the DMG, and the fact it isn't there speaks volumes. I try to run a logical, albeit fantastical, campaign world where the PC's are governed by the same set of physical and magical laws as the NPC's, and it only makes sense for this chance of producing a flawed item can affect them as easily as anyone.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, I can't point you to a specific page of text that says that players are immune to creating cursed items, simply because they don't. Hopefully you have noticed that the text you are referring to is located in the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE. Hopfully, you have noticed that the text you are referring to also states "Whenever you roll for a magic item...". Note that players DO NOT ROLL for magic items when they create them. All of this applies to treasure only, as per the rules. Just because the books don't state that a sword is a chicken sandwich, does that really mean that a sword is in fact a chicken sandwich? What you are proposing is a House Rule. It's not a bad one, in fact, it's pretty darn cool! But it is still a house rule.

 

[Gromm]

Personally if I spent a bunch of money and XP on an item and my DM told me it was cursed I'd (quite reasonably) get pretty angry and probably stop playing with said DM.
Its fine to throw cursed items out, but making magic items isn't an easy thing for most PC due to time, money, and of course XP spent.
I took my first item creation feats this time around and because of it I'm behind the other party members (I'm broke, low on XP and missed a side quest- which cost me more money and XP).
If those items had been cursed I'd not only have lost out on all of the above, but I'd also feel cheated by the DM and I'd rightfully think I wasted two of my precious feats (I've only got 4 total at lvl 9).
Don't curse party items unless you want angry PCs who might not be around come next session.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Don't curse party items unless you want angry PCs who might not be around come next session.

hah! dude, you make it sound like it's gonna happen 99% percent of the time... calm down. there's a 65,000,000:1 chance that life on earth could be obliterated by an asteroid. does that mean we shouldn't live on earth?

 

[kreynolds]

hah! dude, you make it sound like it's gonna happen 99% percent of the time... calm down. there's a 65,000,000:1 chance that life on earth could be obliterated by an asteroid. does that mean we shouldn't live on earth?

He's just voicing his opinion. I wouldn't play in a game with a DM that cursed items I made either. I wouldn't do it to my players. Why? Because cursing items that players MAKE is a house rule and it's not one that I'd be particularly fond of. That's all I'm saying, anyway.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I think that would be a very fun house rule. Especially if expaneded upon. How about a 2% change of any item becoming cursed when created. Not a big deal and players might hate it right?

Well what if I create a reason they might like it? How about if I say a wizard like an other craftsman can cut corners in time or materials or even in XP requirement when creating an item but doing so can cause that 2% chance to double, triple, quadruple, or even more depending on how much corner cutting they do.

Now that 2% looks ok and opens them up to having a little risky fun to get that wand they want at a lower cost or in less than a months time to create.

He's just voicing his opinion. I wouldn't play in a game with a DM that cursed items I made either. I wouldn't do it to my players. Why? Because cursing items that players MAKE is a house rule and it's not one that I'd be particularly fond of. That's all I'm saying, anyway.

 

[Madfox]

My opninion on cursed items would depend highly on what items would be affected by it. If the creation of scrolls, potions, staves and wands are excempt from the chance of being cursed, and there is only 1% chance of cursed effect with wondrous items, weapons, armour and rings and I knew it BEFORE selecting item creation feats I would not mind. After all, there are a lot more things that make a PC spend cash (and sometimes xp) with a risk of failure (and many times higher then 1%). Or would you complain when your rogue uses 'use magic device' and fails but spend a charge? Or when you craft a mw item and fail your roll? Or try to identify something and learn that the item only had those illusionary magic aura's?