New Aliens vs Predators trailer

[barsoomcore]

Well, we can banter definitions of "sci-fi" till we're blue in the face but I'll make a couple of observations.

Use of the term "outer space" is not scientific in any way shape or form. That's like saying "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" has a Science element because Santa Claus comes from the North Pole.
Please explain how the task of observation "defines" the word "Science".
Super-powers are not science. That's like saying Superman has a science element because he can fly.
Man vs Nature is not inherently scientific -- unless you're going to say that, for example, "The Old Man And The Sea" is a scientific story.

I don't think that a story that happens to include the occasional fact (there is indeed a place called "Outer Space"), superpowers and nature can be usefully described as "serious sci-fi" on that basis alone. That's what I'm saying.

 

[barsoomcore]

When are you going to update the main Barsoom tales story hour? And when do we get to see the relationship between that setting and the stewardesses corner of the world?

I'm updating Wild Stewardesses today, hopefully (assuming Mrs. Barsoom signs off on the latest post), and Barsoom Tales is up next. I've got three of the suckers going on right now, so I try to rotate between them. This might be the last Wild Stewardesses post for the current adventure, however, which will give me a bit of a break.

The related elements between both settings has already been introduced. It probably won't become clear for quite some time, however. But I'll say this: it's a character who appears in both (sort of).

Speculation is welcome -- post it in either thread, if you think you've got an idea....

 

[Cannibal_Kender]

The new movie looks ok I guess....though it just doesn't seem right without the colonial marines in the middle.

 

[Kai Lord]

Come on. A film that features frickin' WINONA RYDER as an action hero ISN'T high camp?

Sorry, I know straw man arguments are an internet staple, but they're kind of a pet peeve with me. Pretending that I suggested Alien: Ressurection wasn't excruciatingly campy? Give me a break.... I'm not going to take umpteen posts to spell out what I've stated in plain english several times already.

I said the Alien FRANCHISE isn't inherently campy. One stillborn abomination of a fourth film that shouldn't even be mentioned let alone remembered does not a franchise make.

 

[Kai Lord]

And -- and remember, I like serious science fiction -- I think that rock in a sci-fi movie is absolutely acceptable and can work really well in the right place. In a serious film. Even though I really dislike metal and butt rock, I still understand how it can be cool and enjoyable in a sci-fi film, and can appreciate it in that context.

For me "cool and enjoyable" use of metal or butt rock in a sci-fi film would be along the lines of James Cameron including Guns N Roses in T2, because there a ten year old kid was carrying around a boom box in a movie set in 1994. Though in retrospect, he probably should have been listening to Pearl Jam or Nirvana, but Jimmy had no way of knowing that when he shot the film in 1990.

I'm also not ripping on Rob Zombie being featured in the club scene in The Matrix. Again, the context fit the setting. If AvP turns out to be set in 2004 and one of the bounty hunters (or whoever they are) has a scene where they unwind to some metal I won't necessarily cry foul.

I haven't seen Predator in a while, but I'm pretty sure when Arnold's team is riding in the helicopters toward the jungle drop point they might be listening to some rock. But again it was a contemporary setting and I think one of the guys had a radio. Could be wrong on that one.

But when hard rock or metal is used as the score itself, yuck, yuck, yuck. Just lame. I'm talking Resident Evil. Maximum Overdrive. Crap like that. A little bit here and there in a setting appropriate context I don't have a problem with.

I hated Highlander (I've only seen the first one.) I hated Heavy Metal. Not just because of the music but it certainly didn't help those movies.

Highlander was what I'd call "serious" and Flash Gordon wasn't. Queen worked just fine in the latter, but I found it distracting in the former.

And when I describe a film as "serious" I mean they don't make fun of their own premise. Not that you sit there stonefaced watching the whole thing. Arnold may wink or nod at the audience on occassion, but the Terminator and Predator films took their premises seriously and delivered some intense thrills.

Listen to Jim Cameron's commentary on the Extreme T2 DVD if you want further clarification on the subject, or at least my take on it. Cameron makes several references to being careful at not crossing that line into full-on self parody or lack of respect for what's appropriate in a given genre. He was concerned about playing "Bad to the Bone" when Arnold stepped out of the bar and the potential silliness for the "stand on one foot" scene with John Connor.

Lots of "serious" sci-fi films have comic relief or crowd pleasing moments, but they're all business when it matters most dramatically, or at least the good ones are. For me, metal just doesn't work in dramatic scenes or action sequences. That's really all there is to it, and to date no one has even been successful in mentioning a film that would be the exception to the rule.

 

[barsoomcore]

Pretending that I suggested Alien: Ressurection wasn't excruciatingly campy? Give me a break.... I'm not going to take umpteen posts to spell out what I've stated in plain english several times already.

I said the Alien FRANCHISE isn't inherently campy. One stillborn abomination of a fourth film that shouldn't even be mentioned let alone remembered does not a franchise make.

Smack, smack, smack.

Hey, if by Alien FRANCHISE you mean, "Three quarters of the Alien movies made so far," you need to say so. My mind-reading powers aren't up to that task, I'm afraid.

If a portion of a FRANCHISE includes a film that is campy, then statements to the effect that the FRANCHISE isn't campy are incorrect, unless they specify that the campy element isn't to be included in the FRANCHISE.

But I'll agree that until we get to Alien: Resurrection, the FRANCHISE wasn't campy. But it sure is now. You may want to pretend that movie never happened, heck, I may want to pretend it never happened, but it did. So the FRANCHISE is officially a source of campiness nowadays. For someone to be faithful to the FRANCHISE, they need to acknowledge the campiness. This is why I welcome an Alien film that ISN'T faithful to the FRANCHISE.

For me, metal just doesn't work in dramatic scenes or action sequences. That's really all there is to it, and to date no one has even been successful in mentioning a film that would be the exception to the rule.

You can't be serious about this. You're honestly suggesting that no good action sequence was ever scored to rock and roll? Cause what I heard in that trailer sure wasn't anything I'd call "heavy metal" -- it was plain old rock and roll, loud and fast and hard. And you're going to insist that no good action sequence ever used loud rock and roll effectively?

II'm just very very surprised that you think this isn't common practice in action movies.

What about Limp Bizkit's version of the Mission: Impossible theme in M:I 2? That was WAY heavier than what I heard in the AvP trailer, and it worked great. The alley fight scene in Charlie's Angels, to the stylings of Prodigy? Heck, check the soundtrack to The Matrix -- oh look, it's Rob Zombie, it's Prodigy, it's Rage Against The Machine...

I mean seriously.

 

[Kai Lord]

What about Limp Bizkit's version of the Mission: Impossible theme in M:I 2?

Ah, there you go. I knew there had to be an exception. I think the reason it works is because the setting of the film and period of the music sync up. Classical works in any time period, techno works for contemporary and certain futuristic stories (Matrix being a prime example), but "Rock" actually covers many eras, and really transforms each decade, usually dating itself in the process.

Heavy or semi-heavy metal is quite specific in what it works with, and an Alien/Predator film ain't it. I just watched the motorcycle chase in M:I2 and then the AvP trailer again. The music in AvP was definitely heavier, with M:I2 it was almost an orchestral score (even matched the tune of the theme song) but with an electric guitar. In AvP its just someone jamming incoherently (and probably standing on my lawn while they're doing it) to action set in a very "sci-fi" looking setting.

Yeah, it just doesn't work.

Heck, check the soundtrack to The Matrix -- oh look, it's Rob Zombie, it's Prodigy, it's Rage Against The Machine...

From the nightclub scene, the soundtrack CD, and closing credits, none of which qualify as action scenes. And I'll just pretend that you didn't invoke "Charlie's Angels" in defense of anything remotely regarding quality action sequences.

 

[barsoomcore]

You pretend what you like.

Keep yelling at those kids on your lawn, though. I'm sure they'll start treating you with respect any day now.

 

[jgbrowning]

I haven't seen Predator in a while, but I'm pretty sure when Arnold's team is riding in the helicopters toward the jungle drop point they might be listening to some rock. But again it was a contemporary setting and I think one of the guys had a radio. Could be wrong on that one.

I think it was a Little Richard song called Long Tall Sally. 1956 or so...

joe b.

 

[OmegaTeddy]

I've read the comments here and I am only interested in voicing my opinion over one thing. Some people mentioned that putting Predators (or Yautja) and Aliens (or kainde amedha) together is just for the money. Well I'm sorry but in the early 90's Darkhorse had practically bought the rights to both franchises and launched them into a deeper and more interesting jaunt with each comic series they created.

There where even a couple series called Aliens vs. Predator. They were well written and made sense. Now I'm not saying that the movie is actually based off one of the series, but it may be since I haven't read it in years. Also if you think that the Alien or Predator franchise is just the movies, I think you should go to your local comic shop or chapters and get a copy of either the comics or the novelizations. They push the franchises into epic proportions with their detail and story.

On the topic of music, I have no idea if it fits or if the movie is going to be loaded with rock music. I hope not, but I have been impressed with where some rock is placed in action sequences before. *shrugs* It could go either way.