New Article: Death and Dying

[Peter LaCara]

My point was in relation to how healing magic works better on PCs at negative and how the system incentivises foes finishing them off before they're healed. Not the 1 in 20 rule.

Actually, what it incentivises is for the monsters to focus on the healer before he can revive his downed companions. Because there's no "healing tax," if the monsters fail to kill the PC before the cleric or warlord get their turn (not unlikely, given the large hp buffer), then all their attacks have been wasted.

 

[FireLance]

On the issue of healing on a natural 20: a comment from another poster on another thread (in CircvsMaximvs) led me to realize that the hit point recovery on a natural 20 is only in the "Try It Now!" section. The actual 4e rule might be that on a natural 20, the character actually stabilizes (no further rolls needed) and may use a second wind, if he has any left.

Of course, if you don't like the idea of second wind in the first place, you're not going to like this any better, but otherwise, it's no longer an opponent "healing" a character by wounding him - it's the character being able to draw on his inner reserves and recover enough to keep on fighting despite having being knocked unconscious earlier.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

On the issue of healing on a natural 20: a comment from another poster on another thread (in CircvsMaximvs) led me to realize that the hit point recovery on a natural 20 is only in the "Try It Now!" section. The actual 4e rule might be that on a natural 20, the character actually stabilizes (no further rolls needed) and may use a second wind, if he has any left.

Of course, if you don't like the idea of second wind in the first place, you're not going to like this any better, but otherwise, it's no longer an opponent "healing" a character by wounding him - it's the character being able to draw on his inner reserves and recover enough to keep on fighting despite having being knocked unconscious earlier.

A good point.

I got the impression a lot of healing is based on the Second Wind abilities of 4E - possibly even all. If there is also only a limited amount of times you can use this ability per day, this might mean:
- It doesn't matter how many powers can enable you use it. You can't exceed your limit.
- It doesn't matter how you got your second wind, there is no "better" way to get up.
This specifically removes the problems of combat-related abilities to enable a second wind. You don't have to decide "let's pick up a mock fight so we can get our HP back with our per encounter powers". Outside of combat, you probably always have an option to activate Second Wind, and using that is probably easier (and feels less stupid) then any attempt to create a fake encounter...

 

[delericho]

Well, it's okay.

Two things I don't like:

1) Death at negative half hit points. Better, IMO, to have death at negative full hit points, rule that any attack on a dying character is an automatic critical hit, and double the bleeding damage per round.

2) Monsters are dead at 0 hit points, unless they've been predetermined as being important to "the plot". So, I guess PCs now can't nurse one of those goblins back to positive hit points in order to pump him for information, then?

 

[Bagpuss]

Yes. It's very interesting. I think the rolling a d20 and looking at the chart will take some getting used to....

You really need to look at a chart to remember 20 great, 10+ okay, 9- oh dear.

I doubt anyone needs to look at a chart unless they are the sort of person that has trouble remembering their own name.

 

[BeauNiddle]

2) Monsters are dead at 0 hit points, unless they've been predetermined as being important to "the plot". So, I guess PCs now can't nurse one of those goblins back to positive hit points in order to pump him for information, then?

As has been pointed out previously the instant the players start looking for a surviving goblin they become important to the plot. Either calculate how long it's been for each goblin and have them all roll stabilisation rolls OR roll for the last 2 or 3 goblins downed OR handwave it.

Do you want to reward the players for thinking about questioning the goblins or punish them for not using subdual damage? or do you want the dice to determine it?

Anyway Speak With Dead has been a staple of D&D for years for a reason

 

[Steely Dan]

So, I guess PCs now can't nurse one of those goblins back to positive hit points in order to pump him for information, then?

Actually, that used to annoy me, players trying to smack things within -1 and -10 hp so they could revive them after the battle and "interrogate” them (meta-playing crap)."

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

By the way: There is an important reason why PCs still count their negative hit point total:
They can still accumulate damage - imagine being dropped inside the Pit Fiends Fire aura - if your comrades can't hope to stabilize you, they might at least want to get you out of the heat.

You also don't want Wizards fireballing an enemy group when there is still a PC lying around (unless, well, you don't care or have no other choice, off course).

 

[Spatula]

Meh.
Hey, this NPC isn't dead! He must be important to the plot!
They're really taking the 'monsters and PCs don't work the same way' thing way too far.

This is EXACTLY how 3e works now.

Monsters die at zero hp in 3e right now? Must have missed that bit in the rules...

 

[MerricB]

Just realised this rule sort of already exists... in Advanced Squad Leader.

When you almost... but not quite... kill a tank, you place a Shock token on it.

Next round, you roll a die. On a 1 or 2, the token is removed and the tank may act as normal. On a 3-6, the token is flipped to its Unconfirmed Kill side.

The round after, you roll a die again. On a 1-3, the UK counter is removed. On a 4-6, the tank is killed (and flipped to its wreck side).

Designer note: "Another common occurrence was an AFV's crew being killed, injured, or stunned - with no visual effect of this apparent to the firer. In such an instance, the firer, not knowing if the target was out of action, usually continued to pump rounds into it until satisfied that it was indeed knocked out."

Ok, it's not a great analogy. I've just been spending far too much time with the ASL rules recently...

Cheers!